Templar Balance Discussion

[Gadwin83]

Unfortunately the way it stands now, temps balance the game more than they hurt it. As Shadow said earlier, they need their high dps (and its closer to 15-20k per whack on Jin compared to the 10k on Ran) to be able to tear through vit dekans and teardrops and such. While I will agree that they do need a nerf to make them more fair to other classes, they can't be the first thing the GM's fix. If the GM's were to drop down temp damage to a "fair" amount, the game might actually take a turn for the worse. In order to look into balancing Templar damage, other aspects of the game (i.e. vit dekans, teardrops, vit wizzies/priests, etc) would have to be taken care of first, otherwise all you're doing is reducing the amount of kills. In my opinion, the easier (and the one with less complaints) would be to buff up other classes to temp/dekan level (guards and str dhans are basically already there, at least for Jin) and make all classes more viable, rather than focus on hard nerfing the 2 biggest damage dealers in the game.

Just curious, why do you think buffing everyone up to the point where, at least on Jin, they'd be 1 or 2 shotting each other is going to make the game better then just nerfing a couple classes that need it and celestial teardrops?

[Gadwin83]

Ish had the right idea. First tds gotta get fixed then dekans gotta get fixed then templars need to get fixed.

I strongly disagree. Clearly we need to fix templars first then fix dekans and tds.

[ShadowAce]

I strongly disagree. Clearly we need to fix templars first then fix dekans and tds.

Ok yeah lets get rid of stable dps that can out last the 10k hp a second effective regen from teardrops and wines. Then after this we will remove the only reliable burst nuke and after all of this is done..... we will remove this effective regen completely.

IQ test requirement for this thread for gods sake. I am sick of playing nice with you if you dont understand the core mechanics behind the game GTFO!

[Gadwin83]

Ok yeah lets get rid of stable dps that can out last the 10k hp a second effective regen from teardrops and wines. Then after this we will remove the only reliable burst nuke and after all of this is done..... we will remove this effective regen completely.

IQ test requirement for this thread for gods sake. I am sick of playing nice with you if you dont understand the core mechanics behind the game GTFO!

Most the other classes in the game deal damage in a fashion similar to templars. Run up, hit target over and over and over. Few classes in the game deal damage like vit dekans do with a huge nuke. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to balance out templars first, since we have plenty of classes that deal damage in a similar manner to balance them in reference to, then from there see where dekan damage and tds need to be to make things fair. Or ya know, tweak them both in one patch, see how it works, and proceed as needed.

Thanks for the aggressive red font though

[Neophyte28]

If you think back to when staff buffing was fixed, when we only had crafteds and not everyone had bezes (and there were no ralers), it was almost balanced.

However the stat inflation started going out of control which showed up the flaws in blunt mastery (and proved what I was saying about the equation being written and only suitable for the previous meta) along with dekans throwing around their 1-hit phalluses.

You have to start using the old "why?" trick to find your solutions:
Templars have access to too much attack power. Why? Because the blunt mastery formula was written for a previous meta where there wasn't such stat inflation.
Templars claim this attack power is currently necessary. Why? Because it would otherwise be impossible to kill vitties.
It's impossible to kill vitties. Why? There's too much vit/HP out there along with insane pots which are easy to obtain.

You start at the end and work your way back. Fix the healing issue > look at changing how vit/HP works by potentially reducing the vit to HP bonus (also helps with dem pesky wizzords) > reduce templar melee > apply additional fixes (D/W FFS, wiz reraise etc.) > happy peoples.

[PrinceOfDaSouth]

So basically if your not a vit build its easy to die...right? hmm and your point is?
Isnt that common sense, comparable to if I don't have a lot of money, im not rich.

I could see how this gap is massive on the no DD server, for the temp issue

For vit dks the fix is easy on ran, dmg affected by DD. Nerf it too much and they are useless on ran, Same goes for temps, too much nerf and they just whack away until someone kills them.

It is not an easy thing to fix. If I drop lvl doom (30% malee drop trap) temps hits get cut in half and more in some cases depending on pim and acc. put a nerf on their dmg also and as a full str dhan I can tank them all day, balance will not be easy to achieve and I agree that the hard hits from temps are very necessary, honeslty for me on ran the 50% offhand buff is the stupidest thing I see. it is just dumb. No offense to our GMs I know its not their idea or fault

but qq'ing you die too quick if your not vit is just dumb, there is no grey area that's the way it is, if you want a game where everyone wins join a preschool colouring contest, everyone gets an A+

And the only people wanting to change hero skills are people who were already OP, Im over joyed about mine whack away temps now we can have a pretty balanced pvp together.

But I think it is clear that the tweaks and fixes and nerfs will have to be diff server to server, and this is gonna be pretty damn hard for our GMs to accomplish, as a native English speaker working iin Asia I can tel you that even communicating the problem to English speakers here for our GMs will be in itself a bit like shoving red hot needles under your fingernails, good luck guys you have my support

[ShadowAce]

If you think back to when staff buffing was fixed, when we only had crafteds and not everyone had bezes (and there were no ralers), it was almost balanced.

However the stat inflation started going out of control which showed up the flaws in blunt mastery (and proved what I was saying about the equation being written and only suitable for the previous meta) along with dekans throwing around their 1-hit phalluses.

You have to start using the old "why?" trick to find your solutions:
Templars have access to too much attack power. Why? Because the blunt mastery formula was written for a previous meta where there wasn't such stat inflation.
Templars claim this attack power is currently necessary. Why? Because it would otherwise be impossible to kill vitties.
It's impossible to kill vitties. Why? There's too much vit/HP out there along with insane pots which are easy to obtain.

You start at the end and work your way back. Fix the healing issue > look at changing how vit/HP works by potentially reducing the vit to HP bonus (also helps with dem pesky wizzords) > reduce templar melee > apply additional fixes (D/W FFS, wiz reraise etc.) > happy peoples.

Quoted for the truth.

@otto: as much as id love it if dffs was reduced by DD what I feel really has to happen is dffs needs to just get nerfed in damage. Yes you wont be able to kill people solo and that is fine your the one who picked the stupid nuke class in the first place. In group pvp you will be the star as all the other dmg classes work on killing some1 you come in with the big nuke around the potion zone to send them back to the bindstone. This is how dekans were played before and there was no problem with them then.

[PrinceOfDaSouth]

Quoted for the truth.

@otto: as much as id love it if dffs was reduced by DD what I feel really has to happen is dffs needs to just get nerfed in damage. Yes you wont be able to kill people solo and that is fine your the one who picked the stupid nuke class in the first place. In group pvp you will be the star as all the other dmg classes work on killing some1 you come in with the big nuke around the potion zone to send them back to the bindstone. This is how dekans were played before and there was no problem with them then.

Right on, im fine with either fix, maybe even give them another stun or some other useful skill to compensate, but that dffs has to be negated by something other then mareas battle

[ShadowAce]

Right on, im fine with either fix, maybe even give them another stun or some other useful skill to compensate, but that dffs has to be negated by something other then mareas battle

No need to have a reducing factor if the skill itself just gets nerfed :P

[Neophyte28]

Or just do away with it completely. Why do both sages and knights need to have vit/HP based hero skills?