Rohan Balance Patch

[shannon11]

People are reaching these absurd crit rates primarily because of katar mastery crit rate which needs to be changed. Also I have been doing quite a bit of pvp in PA (on my avenger) and when thats done pushing rumirs/noirs/scouts into spawn with my defender. Loop is a stupid skill you put it on one person and that one person is immortal with 1 second uptime. no chance for a crit to bleed through, even if you dont have an absurd crit rate 1 crit nullifies all those regular hits so its not like you could even use a templar to counter loop.

75% is fair or make it 90% and reduce the heal to 2% hp per crit absorbed.

This is not true, max geared dhans get 11-16k agi selfbuffed, their critrate doesn't come from katar mastery but rather from their weapon. 3.0 katar gives 32% critrate and you can put an 18% critrate stone on it. Just your weapon alone will give you 50% crit chance, add to that the fact that they have a 10% crit chance buff, 5% base crit chance, the possibility to wear 4x upg rings with 12% crit, party a guard with 7% crit buff, 10% crit chance on guarder. you end up with nearly 90% crit chance, self buffed, around 100% if you party up. Beside that dhans can reach 120% DD pen, having 70% on their ulti and 20% on guarder and possibly 30% on their weapon. This allows them to pretty much 1 hit people with DPP (they reach insane melee as well with chakras, katar mastery, str buff, 1k str stones on opaniel and what not.

GMs f*cked up back in the day when they designed weapons and such for the classes, they did that for the OLD agi dhans, which were sh1t. When the balance patch came they made dhans PVP monsters but the koreans did not take those upgraded weapons into account.

Loop really isn't an issue for most classes and the koreans agree with me, they tweaked it very similar to mine, their lvl 7 loop lasts 25 seconds, has a 20 second cooldown and heals for 25%. I'm not changing my advice about loop because I'm pretty damn sure that if you design it like you suggested, pvp is going to turn to crap. Half the server is already dhan and they will 1 shot everyone with zero counterplay. Also people are not immortal with just loop, most classes can kill someone no problem while they are on loop. The biggest issue of immortality stems from the fact that everyone has 500k hp at the end of the PA season and you have rumir's Revive force with too low cooldown and 100% hp restore that auto-revives them instantly. They need to adjust that skill (as I suggested) and nerf the PA badge to hell.

Also the way I see it the crown changes from dhans to guardians while all other classes get to remain in that "not good enough but not bad so up to you" territory. Getting 30% block and 15% crit this is the defensive version of predator's katar mastery 1000% not necessary.

You forget that the main reason dhans/noirs are the best pvp classes is due to their invenom, which ignores all damage reducing effects but PVP defense. Guards don't have this. Even with the patch they'll get higher crits but all of that is only initial damage, which is reduced by pretty much every damage reducing effect you can imagine (not to mention countered by loop), this is quite different from noir/dhan. Also guards can't use a guarder (since secondary weapon > guarder) so they lose the 20% dd pen. They can use dd pen stones on their weapons but that's really expensive to maintain.

Also why is every class getting 100% chance to their cleave skills at lvl 7? This just sounds like a massive aoe cluster**** that buff should be capped at 60%.

This is something I have been struggeling with, the koreans gave all classes 100% chance to AOE but 50% damage reduction. This would be okay for PVP but it would give problems for PVE since you won't do enough damage to surrounding mobs in the new map/sup dungeon. You could apply the KR versions but for that you'd have to release more PVE attack items to compensate. I'm not entirely sure what to do with this. I just chose for 100% chance to AOE and 20% damage reduction, to see how it plays out in PVP.

Reflect being removed is stupid as well, this skill used to be the ultimate counter to getting zerged but I guess now it doesnt matter because you can just play a guard and get looped and become an immortal killing machine. I also dont like that suicide change its a unique skill and while the current state of the game doesnt require it one day you might want to have that suicide squad attack.

Reflect isn't removed. Currently templar get's a damage reduction on their own damage output while using reflect. Example: you deal 1000 damage regular attacks, you pop reflect and you only deal 800 damage regular attacks. With all the nerfs templar had, they don't need this decrease in damage, so I simply removed the damage reducing effect from their reflect. The rest (duration, cd etc.) remains the same.

I personally hate suicide, if it were up to me I'd completely remove that skill since it's just plain stupid. You kill yourself to have a chance on killing someone else at the cost of your own XP. Dhans, specially avengers have so many tools to kill someone, they really don't need suicide skill. I changed it so it has more counterplay and to go against people logging lvl 50 alts to suicide bomb lvl 115+50s. This shouldn't happen.

Defenders should get damage based on their HP just like DKs do which would allow you to take advantage of that defending nature buff as well. The main problem with defenders however is that most of their skills suck like whirlwind is one of their big skills and it deals peanuts for damage, the push is the same at all lvls and the cooldown is long as hell. Shield burden one of my favorite skills scales so bad should ignore DD and have a higher %age so it becomes the ghetto version of knight symbol.

I really like this idea about defender, I'm going to implement it in the patch

This is really great that dagger now is a part of option dhans buffs, it would be highly appreciated that would be implemented.

I agree also with the “loop” that’s insane.

Thank you

Just 2 things I wanted to point out from your proposal:

Avenger Storm Assault:

lvl7 12% accumulating damage to your next attack, 75% chance to block a physical attack with your weapon, duration 15 seconds, 30 seconds cooldown

(I think if you plan to make parry 30% chance to defend with weapon then Storm Assault should be nerfed to 60%)

reducing it to 60% will not really make a difference (you'll be able to hit them 1-2x instead of 0x but I can adjust it nontheless


Templar Reflect:

-Reflection
Removed (at all lvls): no longer reduces damage output by 20%

(Did you mean remove the entire skill? Or just remove the damage reduction, because without the Reflect skill there's not much reason to play temp)

It's not going to be removed, only the damage reduction on it will be removed

yo great job!
even if i dont agree to all of your points (most likely coz of my isen-point-of-view) but overall you had some pretty good ideas and i really hope Gms/Devs will notice and appreciate your work.
oh and merge the damn servers

Thank you, and yes, having 2 servers which are different makes balancing even harder. A merge would be good to get rid of these differences.

[sunnyangel]

You keep saying that loop is fine but let me put it to you another way.

One of the principle concepts of balance in any game is to keep strengths and amplify weaknesses. What weaknesses do rumirs have?

1: They have insane HP even without upgrade from their mar skill and seqoias favor etc. In the lategame when you factor in all the all stats you can go full psy and still be tanky as ****.
2: They have revive force like you described
3: They have their own version of psy shield and destroy and hit hard as ****
4: They have a skill that allows them to absorb crits 100% of the time on a server where everyone has crit chance increase (not just agi dhans)
5: They have their own version of impervious shield that lasts 45 seconds
6: They have a skill that gives their entire party resistance to abnormal status effects for 60 seconds

This class has no weaknesses its good at everything it can kill it can tank it can support.

Something has to go some weakness must be created and then amplified here. I suggest that loop get changed to 80% which is still godlike and then you focus on nerfing the other things.

For starters we can just cap crit rate the same way we did to DD (Make it so crit rate caps at 55% or 60%) and more importantly fix invenom's interaction with other crit immunity effects like GMI and crit immunity scrolls.

[DjLudde]

But still 3-5 hits from dhan and you dead whithout loop you think that ok`?

[shannon11]

You keep saying that loop is fine but let me put it to you another way.

One of the principle concepts of balance in any game is to keep strengths and amplify weaknesses. What weaknesses do rumirs have?

1: They have insane HP even without upgrade from their mar skill and seqoias favor etc. In the lategame when you factor in all the all stats you can go full psy and still be tanky as ****.
2: They have revive force like you described
3: They have their own version of psy shield and destroy and hit hard as ****
4: They have a skill that allows them to absorb crits 100% of the time on a server where everyone has crit chance increase (not just agi dhans)
5: They have their own version of impervious shield that lasts 45 seconds
6: They have a skill that gives their entire party resistance to abnormal status effects for 60 seconds

This class has no weaknesses its good at everything it can kill it can tank it can support.

Something has to go some weakness must be created and then amplified here. I suggest that loop get changed to 80% which is still godlike and then you focus on nerfing the other things.

For starters we can just cap crit rate the same way we did to DD (Make it so crit rate caps at 55% or 60%) and more importantly fix invenom's interaction with other crit immunity effects like GMI and crit immunity scrolls.

First of all rumirs main weakness is silence, once you silence them they are dead (except for now since the PA badge just basically f*cks everything). Rangers/Dhans can kil rumirs fairly easily while rumirs can't really do anything vs them. Rumirs are tanks and supports, which is why it requires an assassin to kill them (for me this makes perfect sense game balance wise).

Rumirs do have a lot of damage drop, hp and sustain due to their heals but his is a necessity. I know you have not done any Superior dungeons yet, nor have you grinded in the new map. Let me tell you that the monsters there hit you 50k critical hits while you wear opaniels set/onyx set +15-18, 1k stats title, upg weapon with 70dd, 115+50, chakra rings or rulers +18-20, abs set+18 etc. Now ask yourself how many people in this server have this kind of gear? What are the only things you can do once you hit +50, that's right do sup dungeons (50B xp a dung) or xp in the new map for trans +1/2/5 fragments. You need something like rumirs to keep the party alive. Same goes for killing bosses in sup/inter/new map. You need to darkloop the boss but you HAVE to use loop in order to not get 1 hit by the bosses.

Nerfing loop PVE wise would be a disaster for endgame players, not to mention the consequences in PVP. You haven't seen the damage from Arctic which does 100k crits and 50k invenom and he's still not fully maxed out and hasn't got any trans stats. You need loop to stay the way it's designed, the only thing you can adjust is the amount of healing it does. If you change it the way you want it, it will have very negative effects on both PVP and PVE gameplay.

Now rumir is tanky, a bit too tanky, this is why i reduced their scaling from sequoias favour from 40% to 20%, which is nerfed by 50%. Beside that they HAVE to nerf the PA badge if they want to get balanced game play. This way rumis will have way less HP than they currently do and should be easier to kill. Similar to revive force which had 30 sec duration and 30 sec cooldown, which is now changed to 40 sec duration and 60 sec cooldown (cooldown is literally doubled). These nerfs should be enough to change their tankyness, just please, don't totally change loop...

Rumirs damage isn't that high honestly, they might deal damage on your characters in PA but that's due to 2 reasons, 1. you do not have maxed out damage reduction and with that I mean 70dd upg wep +10dd from +50 and 60% pvp defense from title+rings+opaniel set. 2. Rumirs having 100% PA buff deal increased damage obviously.

To put this in perspective, my noir does have all the damage reducing effects I mentioned above. When facing rumirs in power arena, with ruler arrendal (12k flat magic attack, 500 all stats, 30% dd pen) they crit me about 10k. This is literally f*ck all compared to my 500k hp. Without ruler wep and dd pen they don't deal any damage, like 2-3k maybe.

Putting a cap on crit or any other stat for that matter is a bad idea, people have spend tonns of money reach high critrate and half the server is playing Dhan. putting a cap on it, specially one as low as 50% would enrage a lot of people and even make them quit. Mistakes were made by PWI/YNK but putting a cap on things is punishing players who worked hard for their items/gear, this is not the way to adress this issue.

But still 3-5 hits from dhan and you dead whithout loop you think that ok`?

I agree, this is why I do not want to nerf loop this hard. It's needed PVP and PVE wise to keep it 100% reduction for crit + invenom

[Tylenol4U]

This is for all of u and for albreiker gm where A LVL 115+35 go solo farming if u have onyx set and onyx weapon and accesories +0 because rate here sucks and keura monastery u die demonic cave u die sunken u die every where onyx is drop a solo player die so why keep playing they cant farm and i said this for solo players they are the ones the left the game all this for nothing u cant farm solo no where only upper or ronelia for exp but no for onyx weapon ect there is a lot of non paying players the left because they cant farm no more game is goin down a drain fix all that and players will star comming back

[MAYAPUTOMAYA]

This is for all of u and for albreiker gm where A LVL 115+35 go solo farming if u have onyx set and onyx weapon and accesories +0 because rate here sucks and keura monastery u die demonic cave u die sunken u die every where onyx is drop a solo player die so why keep playing they cant farm and i said this for solo players they are the ones the left the game all this for nothing u cant farm solo no where only upper or ronelia for exp but no for onyx weapon ect there is a lot of non paying players the left because they cant farm no more game is goin down a drain fix all that and players will star comming back

You need to be clear on this issue. The question is for you what character you playing on? Do you have support chars when you go farming in this places that you mention?

[sunnyangel]

First of all rumirs main weakness is silence, once you silence them they are dead (except for now since the PA badge just basically f*cks everything). Rangers/Dhans can kil rumirs fairly easily while rumirs can't really do anything vs them. Rumirs are tanks and supports, which is why it requires an assassin to kill them (for me this makes perfect sense game balance wise).

Rumirs do have a lot of damage drop, hp and sustain due to their heals but his is a necessity. I know you have not done any Superior dungeons yet, nor have you grinded in the new map. Let me tell you that the monsters there hit you 50k critical hits while you wear opaniels set/onyx set +15-18, 1k stats title, upg weapon with 70dd, 115+50, chakra rings or rulers +18-20, abs set+18 etc. Now ask yourself how many people in this server have this kind of gear? What are the only things you can do once you hit +50, that's right do sup dungeons (50B xp a dung) or xp in the new map for trans +1/2/5 fragments. You need something like rumirs to keep the party alive. Same goes for killing bosses in sup/inter/new map. You need to darkloop the boss but you HAVE to use loop in order to not get 1 hit by the bosses.

Nerfing loop PVE wise would be a disaster for endgame players, not to mention the consequences in PVP. You haven't seen the damage from Arctic which does 100k crits and 50k invenom and he's still not fully maxed out and hasn't got any trans stats. You need loop to stay the way it's designed, the only thing you can adjust is the amount of healing it does. If you change it the way you want it, it will have very negative effects on both PVP and PVE gameplay.

Now rumir is tanky, a bit too tanky, this is why i reduced their scaling from sequoias favour from 40% to 20%, which is nerfed by 50%. Beside that they HAVE to nerf the PA badge if they want to get balanced game play. This way rumis will have way less HP than they currently do and should be easier to kill. Similar to revive force which had 30 sec duration and 30 sec cooldown, which is now changed to 40 sec duration and 60 sec cooldown (cooldown is literally doubled). These nerfs should be enough to change their tankyness, just please, don't totally change loop...

Rumirs damage isn't that high honestly, they might deal damage on your characters in PA but that's due to 2 reasons, 1. you do not have maxed out damage reduction and with that I mean 70dd upg wep +10dd from +50 and 60% pvp defense from title+rings+opaniel set. 2. Rumirs having 100% PA buff deal increased damage obviously.

To put this in perspective, my noir does have all the damage reducing effects I mentioned above. When facing rumirs in power arena, with ruler arrendal (12k flat magic attack, 500 all stats, 30% dd pen) they crit me about 10k. This is literally f*ck all compared to my 500k hp. Without ruler wep and dd pen they don't deal any damage, like 2-3k maybe.

Putting a cap on crit or any other stat for that matter is a bad idea, people have spend tonns of money reach high critrate and half the server is playing Dhan. putting a cap on it, specially one as low as 50% would enrage a lot of people and even make them quit. Mistakes were made by PWI/YNK but putting a cap on things is punishing players who worked hard for their items/gear, this is not the way to adress this issue.



I agree, this is why I do not want to nerf loop this hard. It's needed PVP and PVE wise to keep it 100% reduction for crit + invenom

Why are we jumping through hoops trying to preserve whats broken about this game? The damage in these dungeons is broken, the damage dhans have is broken, the all upsides no downsides rumir is broken its all broken.

I also dont see a problem with capping crit rate the same way they capped DD right now. People felt F!@#$%^ when staff buffing got nerfed and guess what they got over it, people felt f!@#^$ when DD got capped and guess what they got over it. So what some players are gonna offload their upg rings for chakras if you got an upg 2.0 you are still gonna need that. Maybe you wont need those trans crit stones instead you can opt for the trans crit damage and DD pen. The people left in this game I hate to say it are hopelessly addicted, especially if you are geared like that. If you want to make the game better its a sacrifice you will have to make.

This game is hard for all the wrong reasons I still dont know why theres a dungeon where mobs are hitting 50k crits on people with better gear than our korean counterparts but thats a logistical problem not a justification for having a bunch of broken heavy hitters and people who can tank the entire world.

[shannon11]

This is for all of u and for albreiker gm where A LVL 115+35 go solo farming if u have onyx set and onyx weapon and accesories +0 because rate here sucks and keura monastery u die demonic cave u die sunken u die every where onyx is drop a solo player die so why keep playing they cant farm and i said this for solo players they are the ones the left the game all this for nothing u cant farm solo no where only upper or ronelia for exp but no for onyx weapon ect there is a lot of non paying players the left because they cant farm no more game is goin down a drain fix all that and players will star comming back

Koreans designed it so that you can't grind solo anymore in those places, they want you to party with others, you're stronger together. Even with others I understand it can be hard to xp in mirror dungeons, specially damage wise you won't get very far if you don't have an upgraded weapon and other at least medium gear. This is one of the reasons I'm so keen on introducing easy to obtain PVE Attack & Defense. This would make a big difference for the average/new player.

You need to be clear on this issue. The question is for you what character you playing on? Do you have support chars when you go farming in this places that you mention?

your questions are true but even with a full party you won't survive properly unless the people in it have upgrades and medium gear.

Why are we jumping through hoops trying to preserve whats broken about this game? The damage in these dungeons is broken, the damage dhans have is broken, the all upsides no downsides rumir is broken its all broken.

I also dont see a problem with capping crit rate the same way they capped DD right now. People felt F!@#$%^ when staff buffing got nerfed and guess what they got over it, people felt f!@#^$ when DD got capped and guess what they got over it. So what some players are gonna offload their upg rings for chakras if you got an upg 2.0 you are still gonna need that. Maybe you wont need those trans crit stones instead you can opt for the trans crit damage and DD pen. The people left in this game I hate to say it are hopelessly addicted, especially if you are geared like that. If you want to make the game better its a sacrifice you will have to make.

This game is hard for all the wrong reasons I still dont know why theres a dungeon where mobs are hitting 50k crits on people with better gear than our korean counterparts but thats a logistical problem not a justification for having a bunch of broken heavy hitters and people who can tank the entire world.

The reason DD was capped is due to the fact that people were able to reach 100% damage drop with one single layer of a damage reducing effect (your weapons), only this layer got capped at 80% to prevent this. To compensate for this cap the koreans introduced shield mastery with 50% blockrate on guards/defenders (which were the ones reaching 100% DD) so they could use mace + shield or dagger + shield, not being bothered by the 80% cap.

You haven't read my prefase and such thoroughly, I'm mainly focussing on skill/buff balancing while taking the current status of the game in mind (for a good reason). Your suggestions are all over the place, if you adjust too many things at once you'll only create chaos and you won't be able to see anymore which parameters had the biggest influence on certain effects.

You need to keep a few important main rules in mind:
1. Only focus on skills/buffs and don't change any other game related parameters (except for maybe PVE Attack & Defense which is a parameter that is only positive and only works for PVE). This way you can see more clearly how certain adjustments improve or decrease the PVP and PVE gaming experience of players
2. Do not nerf any class too heavily or it will enrage people who are heavily invested in these classes and make them quit/charge-back (something the GM's will not alow so it's pointless to suggest this)
3. Adjust skills/buffs in at least 2 phases and preferably more, to observe the effect of certain changes and adjust accordingly in consecutive phases
4. Do not try to totally revert past implementations nor totally neglect comming future ones, the Korean devs will not approve of my suggestions if I tell their ideas are complete horsesh1t. A slightly more diplomatic approach might initially seem less effective but might bear more fruit in the end. (never thought I'd say that, on this forum but for everything's a first lol)

Once these 4 rules are obeyed and completed you can look at different aspects of the game for example:

1. How are we going to deal with indo gear which is totally out of proportion compared to the regular items and unbalances the game (compensation for the ones owning these items? Just delete the items?)
2. How do we decrease the gap between veteran and new players further (release PVE related items to make them able to farm)
3. How are we going to introduce new weapons and how can we make the gap between crafted, upgraded and forge-able weapons smaller (you have made some nice suggestions about this)
4. How can we increase the population of active players and how can we merge Jainus & Isen without people going apesh1t (make crafted weapons better, again just follow your suggestion)
5. How to change SA/CV/PA and other events in order for them to be usefull/fun to participate in and not prone to abuse anymore (certs rewarded for all of them, change PA badge stats etc.)
6. How to adjust the vengeance system accordingly (suggestions have been given for this)
etc. etc.

[Tylenol4U]

That`s the issue no matter what character u play a player decide play on a party or play solo before i use too go demonic solo with my savage 115+23 and farm there now i cant go no where so i stop playing but if i like to play solo i dont need support go play korea like i did was hard but there scouts farming freaking keura solo try it here and there more players them here because of the rates more drops more success they need to fired all of this gm`s and put new ones the care about the players no the money

[xXxAurorAxXx]

they need to fired all of this gm`s and put new ones the care about the players no the money

No need. They all get up and leave on their own accord pretty quick, leaving nothing but a trail of broken promises behind them.