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  1. #161
    Colonel FrontlinerCDV's Avatar
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    Just because I used to argue with you doesn't mean I don't take your word for it. I just have a different basis for what I consider to be balanced.

    Many people believe that if every character is able to kill every other character within two seconds that that's balanced. I personally find that horse**** because it completely removes tank builts from being of any value. And with that goes a lot of consideration in char building(do I go full strength, or do I go 3:1, 4:1 or or or???) down the drain, which is possibly one of my most favourite aspects of Rohan - and something we haven't seen since 51s.

    The endgame between when Upgrades were introduced and before the Heroic Update is the most balanced that I have seen in Rohan, I don't say that because I used to play at the top at that time but because I've seen what happened on the PServers during and beyond that time and I have a basic understanding what the state of balance before that was even though I wasn't actively fighting for the top(2007-mid 2009).

    But the balanced state of affairs during that time had an obvious downside which I hopefully frequently brought up when discussing these on the forums, and that was build diversity. When previously and afterwards a plethora of builds were viable, 2011-2012 endgame only knew Int Temps, Vit Defs, Priests, Wizzards, Vit Dekans, Ranger and the odd Dhan here and there. Nothing else was too viable because the METAGAME revolved around Templars doing their thing and supports supporting these. Nothing else had the same amount of combat prowess with near intangibility and I can tell you why that came to be: Because every class relies on buffs to work, and there is a class that can dispell up to 15: Le Wizzards. If Wizzards were toned down, if Temps had no debuff to rely on, I can assure you that you would have seen many more builds being playing during that period. Most were tanky enough and comboing any non-vit char had good enough results, all that prevented it was Wizzards and Temps saying "**** You" to every full-buffed char. I can recall an Etton PvP that had me and Imba running around on our Guards(he Str, me Dex) whopping ass as best we could, but after a while(and because of the nearby bind stone) we had enough of the constant debuff retardation, relogged, he on his Temp, I on Algis('s Temp) and it was a 5 minute affair because we were back in our state of relative intangibility.

    In addition to knowing how the PvP was like, I invested quite a bit of time into many of the underplayed builds and I was actually kind of surprised how many interesting trinkets most of these had and nobody used. I found that outside a few every player was geared to playing solo when there were so many cool options to work as a teamplayer:
    -A good example is the Strength Predator. Way overshadowed by Str Avenger PP+DPP combo in terms of killing potential, it has group hide, it has a 10% HP every 3 sec recovery trap and some more that I forgot. It's actually a decent enough supporter, but nobody gave a **** besides Emanoela and however few people.
    -Another example is the Berserker Skill Build WillDaThrill made. When he pitched the idea to me I was slightly confused and a bit amused, but he sounded sincere and so I looked into it with him. Berserker have: a non-cureable silence, a pretty decent combo, a skill that removes debuffs or rather negative effectors(such as Vaccuum, Warcry, Root - to avoid confusion), a damage bonus AOE(CTB) and an AOE stun. Will's build caught everybody by surprise because nobody had an idea how good it was and how to properly counteract it at first.
    -And lastlyWarlocks have some unique skills in their arsenal, all of them are a pain in the arse to deal with. Pet Prevent, HP Reduction and Pot Blocker are a nightmare as a Tank because you're going to go down much quicker. But Wizzards just reigned supreme.

    You see, it's actually all there already, sure enough some of these classes could use a damage boost or two and maybe two more attack skills with decent damage, but outside of Scouts and Savages, who need a more significant rework, you can make every class work in PvP, and you could've made them work especially when debuffing skills are no longer as easy and simple as "Killing Time, Area Dispell 3x, huehuehue".

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by FrontlinerCDV View Post
    Just because I used to argue with you doesn't mean I don't take your word for it. I just have a different basis for what I consider to be balanced.

    Many people believe that if every character is able to kill every other character within two seconds that that's balanced. I personally find that horse**** because it completely removes tank builts from being of any value. And with that goes a lot of consideration in char building(do I go full strength, or do I go 3:1, 4:1 or or or???) down the drain, which is possibly one of my most favourite aspects of Rohan - and something we haven't seen since 51s.


    The endgame between when Upgrades were introduced and before the Heroic Update is the most balanced that I have seen in Rohan, I don't say that because I used to play at the top at that time but because I've seen what happened on the PServers during and beyond that time and I have a basic understanding what the state of balance before that was even though I wasn't actively fighting for the top(2007-mid 2009).

    But the balanced state of affairs during that time had an obvious downside which I hopefully frequently brought up when discussing these on the forums, and that was build diversity. When previously and afterwards a plethora of builds were viable, 2011-2012 endgame only knew Int Temps, Vit Defs, Priests, Wizzards, Vit Dekans, Ranger and the odd Dhan here and there. Nothing else was too viable because the METAGAME revolved around Templars doing their thing and supports supporting these. Nothing else had the same amount of combat prowess with near intangibility and I can tell you why that came to be: Because every class relies on buffs to work, and there is a class that can dispell up to 15: Le Wizzards. If Wizzards were toned down, if Temps had no debuff to rely on, I can assure you that you would have seen many more builds being playing during that period. Most were tanky enough and comboing any non-vit char had good enough results, all that prevented it was Wizzards and Temps saying "**** You" to every full-buffed char. I can recall an Etton PvP that had me and Imba running around on our Guards(he Str, me Dex) whopping ass as best we could, but after a while(and because of the nearby bind stone) we had enough of the constant debuff retardation, relogged, he on his Temp, I on Algis('s Temp) and it was a 5 minute affair because we were back in our state of relative intangibility.

    In addition to knowing how the PvP was like, I invested quite a bit of time into many of the underplayed builds and I was actually kind of surprised how many interesting trinkets most of these had and nobody used. I found that outside a few every player was geared to playing solo when there were so many cool options to work as a teamplayer:
    -A good example is the Strength Predator. Way overshadowed by Str Avenger PP+DPP combo in terms of killing potential, it has group hide, it has a 10% HP every 3 sec recovery trap and some more that I forgot. It's actually a decent enough supporter, but nobody gave a **** besides Emanoela and however few people.
    -Another example is the Berserker Skill Build WillDaThrill made. When he pitched the idea to me I was slightly confused and a bit amused, but he sounded sincere and so I looked into it with him. Berserker have: a non-cureable silence, a pretty decent combo, a skill that removes debuffs or rather negative effectors(such as Vaccuum, Warcry, Root - to avoid confusion), a damage bonus AOE(CTB) and an AOE stun. Will's build caught everybody by surprise because nobody had an idea how good it was and how to properly counteract it at first.
    -And lastlyWarlocks have some unique skills in their arsenal, all of them are a pain in the arse to deal with. Pet Prevent, HP Reduction and Pot Blocker are a nightmare as a Tank because you're going to go down much quicker. But Wizzards just reigned supreme.

    You see, it's actually all there already, sure enough some of these classes could use a damage boost or two and maybe two more attack skills with decent damage, but outside of Scouts and Savages, who need a more significant rework, you can make every class work in PvP, and you could've made them work especially when debuffing skills are no longer as easy and simple as "Killing Time, Area Dispell 3x, huehuehue".
    And yall called me crazy when I said that upgrades era was the most balanced period in rohan history.

    I agree german chris and ofc there were some builds that just were not viable during the upg time primarily because of the increased health and DD. Warlocks are my best example but tbh I think the easiest way to fix some of these spellcasters would have been to add a % target max hp onto all nukes. So for example energy sphere would be a 2% target max HP + 230% matk nuke (since its a mage tree skill) and pollution mind as a warlock skill would deal 5% target max hp + 900% int for the ticks.

    Iceyy~~Certified Rohan Expert
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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrontlinerCDV View Post
    <sni
    p>
    You see, it's actually all there already, sure enough some of these classes could use a damage boost or two and maybe two more attack skills with decent damage, but outside of Scouts and Savages, who need a more significant rework, you can make every class work in PvP, and you could've made them work especially when debuffing skills are no longer as easy and simple as "Killing Time, Area Dispell 3x, huehuehue".
    Scouts and savages in Origin are pretty healthy builds. And 'locks rocks rather nicely.

    It's not the same old Rohan.

    Jesus was my love child.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyangel View Post
    And yall called me crazy when I said that upgrades era was the most balanced period in rohan history.

    ealth and DD.
    But that still doesn't make any sense. All those class strengths he mentioned are true, but like he said, many classes became useless or near-useless.

    Because of the flooding of Pure Attack, and Epics+Upgrades:

    Warlocks could no longer kill.

    Wizards could no longer deal enough support damage.

    Agi Dhans were obsolete next to Str Dhans. Their ability to bypass high defense did not matter because everything gave + 500 attack. Self-buffed Str Dhans were critting harder than fully buffed Agi Dhans.

    Dex Guards became useless just like Agi Dhans above when compared to Str Guardians.

    Str Dekans became useless. They can only kill when max HP is kept relatively low, as they have no spike damage.

    Priests, Wizards, ALWAYS had to go full Vit.

    Give me one reason why 2012+ was more balanced than 2008-2009 Rohan.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyangel View Post
    Warlocks are my best example but tbh I think the easiest way to fix some of these spellcasters would have been to add a % target max hp onto all nukes. So for example energy sphere would be a 2% target max HP + 230% matk nuke (since its a mage tree skill) and pollution mind as a warlock skill would deal 5% target max hp + 900% int for the ticks
    .

    That's dumb AF.
    Last edited by bloodybladez3; 05-04-2017 at 02:04 PM.

  5. #165
    Colonel FrontlinerCDV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodybladez3 View Post
    But that still doesn't make any sense. All those class strengths he mentioned are true, but like he said, many classes became useless or near-useless.

    Because of the flooding of Pure Attack, and Epics+Upgrades:

    Warlocks could no longer kill.
    Naturally, everything that doesn't have a combo and bossdrops cannot. The question is: Is the class useless as a whole? And the answer is no, they are an excellent support class it's just that they are extremely overshadowed by Troll Wizzards

    Wizards could no longer deal enough support damage.
    Wizzards have ceased becoming a significant problem for most classes after 51s. Only Dex Guards and Agi Dhans without a DD weapon take noticeable damage that require a healer.
    But again, the best Wizzards are those just geared towards CC because that's what they excel at.


    Agi Dhans were obsolete next to Str Dhans. Their ability to bypass high defense did not matter because everything gave + 500 attack. Self-buffed Str Dhans were critting harder than fully buffed Agi Dhans.
    Some modifications to the formula could've helped them out for sure. But they were far from useless. Their big downside is that everybody has good enough accuracy to hit them reliably, when before 51s the only ones to do that were dexguards, hybrid guards, ranger, mages and temps.

    Dex Guards became useless just like Agi Dhans above when compared to Str Guardians.
    I beg to differ.

    Str Dekans became useless. They can only kill when max HP is kept relatively low, as they have no spike damage.
    Don't they have this neat stunlock when increasing their attack speed?

    Priests, Wizards, ALWAYS had to go full Vit.
    Most were actually 3:1 and were forced to change to full vit after the hero update

    Give me one reason why 2012+ was more balanced than 2008-2009 Rohan.
    Hero was pure trash.
    123456123456

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by FrontlinerCDV View Post
    that sounds quite neat actually, most of it anyways. I might actually give it a shot?!?

    @Roy

    Heya, long time no see! I hope you've been well since last we chatted?
    I'm doing great, you? Hit me up ingame if/when you play
    KatyPerry level 101 guardian - Forever

    I could let these dream killers kill my self esteem. Or use my arrogance as a steam to power my dreams. - Kanye

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyangel View Post
    And yall called me crazy when I said that upgrades era was the most balanced period in rohan history.

    I agree german chris and ofc there were some builds that just were not viable during the upg time primarily because of the increased health and DD. Warlocks are my best example but tbh I think the easiest way to fix some of these spellcasters would have been to add a % target max hp onto all nukes. So for example energy sphere would be a 2% target max HP + 230% matk nuke (since its a mage tree skill) and pollution mind as a warlock skill would deal 5% target max hp + 900% int for the ticks.
    said the str temp.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by StilgarTheFremen View Post
    said the str temp.
    said the french diplomat

    Iceyy~~Certified Rohan Expert
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnyangel View Post
    said the french diplomat
    That's Mr. Ambassador. Too bad his candidate lost the election over there

    Jesus was my love child.

  10. #170
    Oh em geee! I'm on the list

    Just created 2 chars - I suck so badly :3 How's it going? xD
    Erdi ~~ Scout ~~ Enigma
    Lufty ~~ Priest ~~ Tiny
    Luft ~~ Wizard ~~ Tiny

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