Upg Sales Stat Poll

[Gank83]

Do you have an issue with upgrade weapons improving in quality over time? I find that odd; so you're saying you would be fine buying an iphone 4, and then not wanting Apple to ever release another or newer phone again? That sounds pretty terrible. As we work on improving the quality of your gaming experience, so will we on providing our players with newer and different options to pursue as the game continues to evolve and grow. Class balancing is an issue worked on daily and discussed just as much, as are many others.

This is a pretty poor example with the iphones, because you didn't improve Rohan. If you want to make your iphone example relevant, it would be like Apple slowing down their server to everyone with an old iphone so you have to shell out money for a new iphone just to get back to the previous service you were already used to.

Maybe if you were implementing a balance patch, adding content, raising the level cap, adding skills, etc while adding in new gear, then I'd agree with your example, but none of that happened.

Plus some of the new upgrades are just flat out worse than the previous, like swords for example. Why nerf some and expect people to pay full price for inferior gear compared to what they could have got 6 months ago.

[BananaBandit]

You are right Vinko, today is Wednesday! I apologize for not being able to reply to your thread earlier; as you can imagine, I do tend to stay pretty busy with all of the things I am working on. I think BananaBandit explained it pretty succinctly; taking your poll posted on our forums as an example of the entire population of Rohan would be really unfair to the other players who did not even know about the poll's existence. Using it as a baseline for how everyone else feels on the game would be untrue, as it would only accurately depict the opinions of some of our forum users, and I didn't need a poll to notice that there are many here who do and don't agree with the new upgrade weapons.

I understand that you are showing your displeasure with the new upgrade weapons, but perhaps you can explain why you dislike them with actual valid reasons? Saying they make your old upgrades obsolete, I disagree, they most certainly don't; the are still very powerful pieces of in game equipment. So explain to me why you feel they are for the worse and not the better. That would most certainly get your point across better than a poll which not only represents a fraction of the active Rohan playerbase, but feels sort of one sided. I noticed a lot of votes from accounts with no posts on them at all, or on newer accounts on which posts are extremely infrequent. It just doesn't come off to me as convincing or accurate data, and that is what I would want to see to want to change the upgrade weapon stats.

Do you have an issue with upgrade weapons improving in quality over time? I find that odd; so you're saying you would be fine buying an iphone 4, and then not wanting Apple to ever release another or newer phone again? That sounds pretty terrible. As we work on improving the quality of your gaming experience, so will we on providing our players with newer and different options to pursue as the game continues to evolve and grow. Class balancing is an issue worked on daily and discussed just as much, as are many others.

We feel these changes are improvements towards our class balancing goal in the future, and if you disagree, I would love to hear about it in constructive and informative ways.

Perhaps I can elaborate on some of the things folks here are are finding the most objectionable. Let's use your iphone analogy only with a little more up-to-date references.

Folks buying a specific model of iphone 6 today expect that an iphone 6 sold in 6 months or a year or 5 years from now to be no different than theirs. Same memory, same speed, same size, same bendability. In short they expect an iphone 6 to be an iphone 6 regardless of when you buy it. They know what to expect.

Now if Apple puts an iphone 7 they realize it is a new model, expect and accept that it has better capabilities than the iphone 6. It is obvious since Apple knows nobody would buy an iphone 7 that is no better than the previous model. An iphone 6 owner who bought his phone a months ago wolujld most certainly NOT accept Apple putting iphone 7 insides into an new iphone 6 you bujy next week. They would be very, VERY angry with Apple if they did that and Apple knows it!

Now let's apply that to the upgrades in Rohan. In Rohanese, a model to us is a weapon tier; Glacials (tier 6) are the same model as any other Glacials ikn the game regardless of the attribute coded into them. The original upgrades were based on the previous tier (5 the model - the iphone 5) of weapons popular when lvl 99 was the game level cap. About 7 months ago PWI decided to do a rehash of the upgrade sales to appease the people from JIN being merged with residents of RAN wielding these original upgrades and allow them to compete. These newer upgrades were built upon the Glacial tier (model - the iphone 6) weapons. While many complained about it, this was still seen as the same way as Apple selling iphone 5 three years ago and then selling iphone 6 at the end of last year. That being the case it was still (marginally) accepted by most players.

Now we have PWI selling the same model (iphone 6) of glacial upgrade weapons - those weapons with faster processors (better stats), more memory (HP for dekans) and better performance (wanna see what a DK is going to be DFFSing with one of those?).

In short this is to your players the same as selling the same iphone 6 half a year later with improved insides for 6the same price they bought their original iphone 6. If apple did that you can bet your boots that their customers would be launching class action suits against them. You want to improve your product, you had better be doing it with new models of your product - not farting around with older products.

Now do you understand what has so many people upset? We all understand that PWI's need to advance the game and make money. That's a given. But the current 'model' of upgrades wasn't broken and didn't need to be 'fixed'. You would have had far less opposition to them if you had simply left the 'recipe' alone and waited until you were ready to introduce a new tier (obsidian?) of them before futzing with attributes. As it stands now you have an awful lot of people that bought those marginally earlier 2014/2015 Glacial upgrades, some of which are no more than 3 months old, that are feeling you severely cheated them and are leaving.

That is what has people pizzed off. Not the fact that you sold upgrades. Not that you sold upgrades with new, stronger attributes. It was the fact that you sold THE SAME upgrades that you sold them, for the same price, only now with those stronger attributes. THAT is what has everyone mad at you. THAT is what we want Steve Lee in here explaining to US - the customers who are paying HIS salary.

Finally a note on timing. Even a greedy outfit like Apple will wait at least a year before putting out a new model, even an 'S' model, of their phones. Is there really any reason at all you guys had to be putting out this change so soon? Why couldn't you guys leave the upgrade stats alone for at least a year? People would be more than happy to buy them as fodder to feed to their Noir and Rumirs.

[Vinko]

I think BananaBandit explained it pretty succinctly; taking your poll posted on our forums as an example of the entire population of Rohan would be really unfair to the other players who did not even know about the poll's existence. Using it as a baseline for how everyone else feels on the game would be untrue, as it would only accurately depict the opinions of some of our forum users, and I didn't need a poll to notice that there are many here who do and don't agree with the new upgrade weapons.

If its truth why u asking in forums about player suggestions? if playerbase in forums no is representative.

I understand that you are showing your displeasure with the new upgrade weapons, but perhaps you can explain why you dislike them with actual valid reasons? Saying they make your old upgrades obsolete, I disagree, they most certainly don't; the are still very powerful pieces of in game equipment. So explain to me why you feel they are for the worse and not the better.

If you need any explain why 40 players disagree with new stats check this thread http://forum.playrohan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25440 and http://forum.playrohan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25448

Do you have an issue with upgrade weapons improving in quality over time? I find that odd; so you're saying you would be fine buying an iphone 4, and then not wanting Apple to ever release another or newer phone again? That sounds pretty terrible. As we work on improving the quality of your gaming experience, so will we on providing our players with newer and different options to pursue as the game continues to evolve and grow. Class balancing is an issue worked on daily and discussed just as much, as are many others.

We feel these changes are improvements towards our class balancing goal in the future, and if you disagree, I would love to hear about it in constructive and informative ways.

You cant make class balancing changing weapons stats its a fool idea, fix and renew class skill this is the way. That argument about iphone is funny bro, us selling THE SAME ITEM no a new weapon, lot guys paid for previous version of it and they sux now, can u understand it? everyone wasted MONEY in that weapon 6 month ago even me.

[Gank83]

About 7 months ago PWI decided to do a rehash of the upgrade sales to appease the people from JIN being merged with residents of RAN wielding these original upgrades and allow them to compete.

You mean, they did it to appease Ran players who complained about wanting to be able to buy more upgrades, while for some stupid reason merging Jin into that cluster****. They took a giant steamy crap on the chest of every Jin player and smiled at us while they rubbed it in really good like we were supposed to enjoy it, the "appeasement" they tried to give for the raw deal Jin players got, who originally went to go play on Jin to get the hell away from upgrades, was the crappy glacial boost event, in which they would upgrade one of your regular glacials from junk status to garbage status.

[BananaBandit]

You mean, they did it to appease Ran players who complained about wanting to be able to buy more upgrades, while for some stupid reason merging Jin into that cluster****. They took a giant steamy crap on the chest of every Jin player and smiled at us while they rubbed it in really good like we were supposed to enjoy it, the "appeasement" they tried to give for the raw deal Jin players got, who originally went to go play on Jin to get the hell away from upgrades, was the crappy glacial boost event, in which they would upgrade one of your regular glacials from junk status to garbage status.

Y'know bro, a awful lot of Jin players lined up right alongside Ran players to buy those shiny upgrades. Another big reason (not the only one!!) players left ran for jin was the fact that the original upgrade sales were extremely limited. There were not a lot of them available and those that were was costly as hell to get. If you were in Ran without an upgrade, youj simply could not compete. And if you can't get an upgrade you had no choice except to stay and get daily beatings or start over in Jin where it was promised to never be upgrades (LIEZ!!!). Upgrades back then were hell aexpensive on the EM. I sold a 4-part upgrade zhen for 90K rps back then and it was bought FAST. An epic zhen got me 75K.

Of course since PWI was selling them to Jin they had to sell to Ran too. After all the new Glacial-tier upgrades were better than both the epics and the old upgrades. So PW sold a LOT% of them and made a small fortune in a very short time from both Jin and Ran players.

[Gank83]

There were like 3 people from Jin super excited about them...the rest quit. For some reason, the small handful of Jin players who couldn't figure out they could just sell their Jin stuff and buy stuff on Ran. Plus a bunch of Ran players quit because theirs weren't the best anymore lol. New upgrades + server merge = net loss of players. Worse part is it was literally right after we should have gotten a bump in population from the PH server being merged into ours, but I'm pretty sure like 99% of those guys all ran for the hills when they saw upgrades and realized they would cost like 1/2 of their monthly income lol. The latest wave of upgrades = more players lost. You'd think at some point PW would notice the pattern...3 waves of upgrades over the years...3 times they caused mass rage and lots of people quit.

[BananaBandit]

IIRC e2n was a Jin guild. They have an awful lot more than 3 people in that guild. Even immediately after the merge I saw a lot of e2n guild tags. And a lot of those were also toting around upgrades.

I don't deny there was a lot of guys rage-quitting. But there was also a lot of guys coming back too from the pservers and those were buying upgrades, lots of them, as well. So for every Jin and Ran person that left there was another that came back bought some of those upgrades and are prolly leaving again after they found out what a fkup the Trinity catastrophe is. Of those that were borderline with one foot out the door, are no doubt on their way out now.

I don't agree at all with what PWI did with the upgrades this time around. In fact I feel it was a very bad move on their part - one they really can't afford. It is one thing to sell upgrades again. That is an acceptable and expected situation in this server now. It is a whole other class of idiotic to turn around and put out versions of the same upgrades at the same price with better attributes. that is not fair to the folks that have paid down money to this game and kept it alive. Those people that are now feeling cheated are not going to accept being told their upgrades are not obsolete by some GM. Those are leaving or have already left.

[svemoguca]

You are right Vinko, today is Wednesday! I apologize for not being able to reply to your thread earlier; as you can imagine, I do tend to stay pretty busy with all of the things I am working on. I think BananaBandit explained it pretty succinctly; taking your poll posted on our forums as an example of the entire population of Rohan would be really unfair to the other players who did not even know about the poll's existence. Using it as a baseline for how everyone else feels on the game would be untrue, as it would only accurately depict the opinions of some of our forum users, and I didn't need a poll to notice that there are many here who do and don't agree with the new upgrade weapons.

... We feel these changes are improvements towards our class balancing goal in the future, and if you disagree, I would love to hear about it in constructive and informative ways.

You say here that a poll on this forum is not an example of the entirely population of Rohan. Also, you say that some people don't know about its existence!
Question for you: Is there some new Rohan forum we're not aware of, meant for "chosen" ones?

I voted here as a person who bought 2 upgs 6 months ago, but still I feel ignored all the time. The fact I don't post a lot does not mean I don't play and invest in the game. I try to avoid dramas, that's all. And you think my vote is irrelevant?
Don't we all come here every now and then to see your announcements, sales etc.? If some player misses some event, it's because he/she hasn't checked here on this forum. Am I right?
What other channels are there, behind the scenes, some advice hidden from us all? Is that fair?

These new changes can't be called an improvement, because you can't disassemble weapons later, just get rid of it. Weapon can't be a step towards something, but final solution, next step is next full weapon. Improvements could be done with skills, not gear, but I guess it's not constructive to ask you to fix chars?

Thanks for your answer in advance

[svemoguca]

I didn't need a poll to notice that there are many here who do and don't agree with the new upgrade weapons.

Do you have an issue with upgrade weapons improving in quality over time? I find that odd; so you're saying you would be fine buying an iphone 4, and then not wanting Apple to ever release another or newer phone again? That sounds pretty terrible. As we work on improving the quality of your gaming experience, so will we on providing our players with newer and different options to pursue as the game continues to evolve and grow. Class balancing is an issue worked on daily and discussed just as much, as are many others.

Do you see my point? How do you get to know these things? How do you communicate with players?
Last week I sent a ticket and waited whole week to get an answer. So sending tickets gets you nowhere in my case.

An issue with upgrade weapon is not so important. It's true that I used shiny options and made +14, which will be a bit hard for those who buy these new weaps now. The problem is you did it all unilaterally, in cooperation with YOUR players, because YOUR players want it, not us, and that is a serious issue for me and makes us mad, more than weapons maybe.
Please don't compare upg weap with iphone, which is a PRODUCT you can resell later if you don't like. And you keep us informed all the time that we're not allowed to resell, not to mention you can block/delete our account as well.

So, you sell EXPERIENCE, not products.
And how will my experience get better if I see that GMs communicate with THEIR players and not with me? Here we need to wait for a few days for you to respond. I'm having issue with that.

4 years ago, when my main was blocked for wrongly selling 5 cele instead of a ses, I sent many tickets, talked here but only got silly automatic messages. In the game a friend told me that maybe a girl he knows reported me, because she's poor girl, but knows "rich" people who know masters. I didn't want to believe it, but still saw her equipped nice soon after that and also saw her talking with a GM a bit too friendly on general chat. I sent a ticket asking who reported me, but that was a top secret.

That's the issue behind these new upgrades. Are you aware that you mention YOUR players? The player base behind this forum, people you know and like, and listen to. And there are those others, irrelevant, on rohan forum. Who cares what they think? Do you think it's fair?

[GM_Karazy]

You say here that a poll on this forum is not an example of the entirely population of Rohan. Also, you say that some people don't know about its existence!
Question for you: Is there some new Rohan forum we're not aware of, meant for "chosen" ones?

I voted here as a person who bought 2 upgs 6 months ago, but still I feel ignored all the time. The fact I don't post a lot does not mean I don't play and invest in the game. I try to avoid dramas, that's all. And you think my vote is irrelevant?
Don't we all come here every now and then to see your announcements, sales etc.? If some player misses some event, it's because he/she hasn't checked here on this forum. Am I right?
What other channels are there, behind the scenes, some advice hidden from us all? Is that fair?

These new changes can't be called an improvement, because you can't disassemble weapons later, just get rid of it. Weapon can't be a step towards something, but final solution, next step is next full weapon. Improvements could be done with skills, not gear, but I guess it's not constructive to ask you to fix chars?

Thanks for your answer in advance

I laughed out loud at your first question. If there is a Rohan forum for "chosen" ones, I certainly don't know about it. There are no hidden channels, and no secret fonts of advice. You are also putting words in my mouth. I have never once claimed that your vote was irrelevant, I don't even know where you came up with that conclusion. If I DIDN'T care about what my players had to say, I wouldn't be asking you what you guys wanted. Class balancing was an issue that was voted on as the most relevant change our players wanted, and we are focusing on that now. With the end goal of class balance in mind, we are changing the statistics on the equipment we are offering. It seems like some people were unhappy with that decision, but as I have mentioned before, if you don't like them, explain why. We have plenty of people with no issue with them whatsoever, so why specifically are you upset? I would love to hear a rational argument towards that point.

If you would like to PM me your ticket ID #, I would LOVE to see what ticket you're talking about. I handle tickets on a daily basis, and I communicate with all my GM's on a daily basis too. I make sure that we are all working on and getting the tickets done as efficiently as possible, and I don't know what ticket would be up for over a week when we close tickets after no player response. If you want to talk to me, I think I have made it abundantly clear that I am available for communication. I am only a few clicks away from a PM, and while I haven't had a chance to lately, I do log in to Limestone on occasion. I have seen people accuse GM's of playing favorites, of changing events to help this guild or that guild, of preferring one guild over another.. It's all nonsense. If I talk to someone in game, they aren't secretly paying me to do anything, I'm just saying hello. If someone writes me a ticket or a message, I take the time to read it, and if possible, respond. They do not have some sort of secret connection with me. It is so disappointing to see that you would think that way. It is because of players like that that we can't have more GM/Player interactions, because someone is going to take something completely innocent and simple and twist it into something negative with their over active imagination.

I am extending to you the offer to communicate with me, as I have with everyone else. You have been my player all along, and I treat you the same as I treat everyone else here. I have no favorites, and you are not irrelevant. If you have issues or ideas, communicate with me. I am here because I want to be, and because I want to help make this game great. If you don't like something, tell me about it, let's work on it as a team together instead of incorrectly labeling the person that WANTS to help as someone who doesn't.