There is a nasty rumor that ....

[StrOwnz]

LOL temps are only EASY to manage... if you are in a prolonged fight with them where they run outta reflection.

And lol at 300 int.... I have 6xx on my one dhan and no where CLOSE to having 100% elemental resist. In fact, I have 1k on my giant, and not 100% elemental resist. So to say all you need is 300 is just... well wrong.

Honestly, why does it upset you that you CANT kill a 100% dd defender/guard. Which by the way are the only two classes that can have this. How is it any different from templars being op currently or dekans? It restores just a TINY bit of balance to the human class. They are FAR from immortal. Temps just cant kill them.

Most importantly, from what I have gathered is as follows.

100% dd guard/defender has caused LMS event to end in a draw on more than one occasion because temps focus on dropping the characters that can kill them first. IE dekans, dhans. Is it any surprise on the effective win rate of templars on these events? A templar wins pretty much every single one. Key word there pretty much. Cause im sure once in a great while a fish, or dhan may win. So yes, temps do not have a 100% win rate however its well over 80% I can assure you that much.

Hell if Atzigan would be so kind to shed some light on the current win rate of templars in comparison to any other race/class. Im sure you would see a definite pattern. Im sure that you would also see that classes/builds like str guardians or str defenders have less than a 3% total win rate EVER for those events. Dhans id venture to say possibly 10% win rate. Dekans since they are focused so much 7% or so.

A wizard, warlock, priest, predator, or giant. Im going out on a limb here. However im willing to say all of those have a ZERO percent win rate for these events.

Lets take a LOOK at why those classes have a ZERO win rate shall we?

Wizard - if built psy very very low survivability, ok dmg that can be detoxed. Templars reflect DOT effects/stuns/debuffs.
Warlock - Unless temp kills itself off mirror they are in the same boat as a wizard.
Predator - They aint gonna 1shot ya, even with +18's on PP can only hit SO hard even with ruin trap annoying to temps at best with transformation.
Savage - Debuff
Zerker - Debuff...

So thats 5 classes that have a 100% chance to NEVER win LMS. While a templar will win 80% of them. Does that seem FAIR?!

Right now it at least lets people who choose to gear up a human the ability to have some fun and be in general annoying to templars since templars CANT kill them. However put some pro gear on that guardian. They can kill the templar.... assuming they dont get debuffed every 60 seconds.

"But buffs insta cast." never mind the animation time which is between 1-2 seconds. When you have to rebuff 6-7 buffs thats roughly 10-12 seconds to rebuff. Not including the time you will be stunned after you are debuffed.

Face it, letting temps have the power to kill anyone just because. Has gotten old. Its nice to have characters they CANT kill.

[ShadowAce]

Temps OP you don't say a thing, however
Dekans wffsing 50k every 10 seconds you shit all over the forums: TOO OP NURFPLIZ.
Defenders get 50% off hand you flood the forums with DD should be like this, it's my way or the highway
now defenders get 100% again, and again you keep shitting about how they're too OP, but they still can't kill a templar

which one is more OP?

To get 100% dd when the offhands were 50% you needed a dagger above 65% dd and a sword above 68% which only 2 or 3 ppl had anyways. The 50% offhand was cool because it made defenders a viable option for a non upg user but now everyone can have upg so it doesnt matter.

The difference between 100% dd then and 100% dd now is that there was no SD either so some fatvala dekan could come and dffs you problem solved. Now lol I dont even have max SD and the dekans dffs like 50k thats nothing.

[treintram]

but 4 skills, elemental

warlock's DOT
mage DOT
saint strike
wffs
dffs
Ruin trap
archer bleeding
knight bleeding
ffs

count again.

[treintram]

To get 100% dd when the offhands were 50% you needed a dagger above 65% dd and a sword above 68% which only 2 or 3 ppl had anyways. The 50% offhand was cool because it made defenders a viable option for a non upg user but now everyone can have upg so it doesnt matter.

The difference between 100% dd then and 100% dd now is that there was no SD either so some fatvala dekan could come and dffs you problem solved. Now lol I dont even have max SD and the dekans dffs like 50k thats nothing.

Doesn't really answer the question.

[ShadowAce]

Damage over time skills that cant even out do basic health recovery yeah lets count them tri

the real list is

WFFS
DFFS
FFS
Knight Symbol

also ruin trap does no damage wtf did you put that there for lmao

@Uncle Dekon: You want a safety net of having 100% DD so you can be a walking totem be my guest. I used to pvp with 24% DD upg dagger on an agility dhan before the merge and you are mad because we want you to have 85-88% dd instead of 100%?

I mean **** if tar can live on his def using dual 71% dd old upgs I am sure you can handle having 88% dd what are you worse than tar now? We all see what you are doing and its not helping the situation at all. Templars will still be broken and we will just have walking totems running around so defenders and guards dont even need to be played.

[treintram]

100% immunity to everything but 4 skills, elemental

Damage over time skills that cant even out do basic health recovery yeah lets count them tri

should be more precise, this is the internet.

[ShadowAce]

You cant take little peagle's job tri you job fiend!

[treintram]

You cant take little peagle's job tri you job fiend!

When one fails to do a task within a time frame, someone else has to step in.

also still no answer on the question I've asked.

[BananaBandit]

The difference between 100% dd then and 100% dd now is that there was no SD either so some fatvala dekan could come and dffs you problem solved. Now lol I dont even have max SD and the dekans dffs like 50k thats nothing.

That's nothing it you have 300k hp -.- There is a couple dekans running around lime that is critting in excess of 350k dffs. So even if you had the max SD, that is still gonna be about 210K (note it is not possible for a dual-weilding human to get max SD since they cant equip a shield). I don't call that nothing. That is a 1-hit for 80% of the players on this server even if they had heroic armor (the only place it seems you can get sd). The only human classes you are going to see with anywhere near surviving that kind of damage is vit defs and they can't have max SD..

LMS events will just need to change strategies. Not a big deal. We all can adapt. Temps will no longer own them since it is the dekans, dhans and KS attacks that is going to drop those with the 100% dd.

I see the 100% dd humans as being a balancing factor in a game that has been dominated by templars for years. I also have a suspicion the Trinity classes will have a little something that is gonna make DD pretty much useless as well.

Having a 100% dd vit def in the party providing DN and Empower is not such a bad thing even for the temps in the party

[StrOwnz]

Well lets put this VERY blunt when you bring up the comparison between me and tar.

71% dd a while ago was im assuming much more manageable than it is now. Since I dont think it was until recently that I noticed some players hitting in excess of 20k aa's

Now I feel that I should also point out this fact. For you, surviving in main fights might be slightly easier with the whole GE bug or simply using euphoria since life steal is STILL bugged like a mother fucker. Especially for AOE classes. Since it takes all the dmg delt adds it up then takes w\e percentage of life steal you have IE 10%. So if you did 10k dmg AOE on 8 characters the game will say that you did 80k total dmg. Then it will take your 10% life steal from that 8k then give it to you 8x for a total of 64k life steal every time you swing your mace.

Don't believe me thats how it works? I can throw epics on akali and show you simply with octo/dancing blade. I regen over 40k hp every time I use DB. When im only hitting about 5-6k dmg per mob hit with 15% life steal I should only get 750*number of mobs hit as life steal not 40k +. There HAS been this bug in aoe classes since as long as I can remember. They have never patched it. Since DPP will still net me the life steal from each hit from dpp added then divided.

So while temps in mass PVP can survive and sustain much butter.

This "manageable" thing is not possible for people who are not vit and trust me I see vit classes getting torn up in pvp too. So.....

I told you exactly what needs to happen for me to support a nerf on dd. Templars need their dmg cut in half just as a starter. 40k+ auto attacks should NEVER be a thing. Go ahead tell me about how burst classes hit harder and ill kindly point to the ways that burst classes can be countered. Compaired to the 2 ways a temp can be countered IE Transformation, Vacuum to stop them from doing insane amounts of dmg.

I have said several times 100% dd is troll as fuck. I wont say it isn't, however I will point out that I also haven't seen you fighting near cherish, knightdreams, envi, and utilities when they are all beating on each other. Let me also remind you AcidBurn/Zenki my str defender 2 years ago had dual old 4parts with 62dd on my mace and 61% on my dagger and I fared quite well in pvp seeing I only had 80% dd. However those times, and now are a completely different beast. We didnt have templars hitting 44k dmg on a lvl 115 character with 65% dd. At best they were hitting 7-8k's

So I will point out your fallacies of logic here.

More importantly. Confirmation bias, False equivalence, Kettle logic, anecdotal fallacy, and Proof by assertion.

1. Confirmation Bias - You are solely against 100% dd and will argue against it because the class you play is unable to do dmg on characters who have 100% dmg drop.
2. False equivalence - You compare two different times in rohan to try and show that two things at different times are similar when they are indeed very much different.
3. Inconsistent Comparison - This one is mostly listed because you pointed out that Tars DD
4. Kettle Logic - You are comparing different gears, to different chars, to different character builds to argue why 100% dmg drop is broken and needs nerfed.
5. Anecdotal fallacy - You are saying that yourself, and others can simply "deal" with taking 40k dmg to the face every swing. However I would like to see you stand near knight/envi in pvp and not do that jesus thing templars all do so well.
6. Proof by assertion - You have said that its op because you do no dmg. Therefor it must be op. You keep saying this, without looking from other perspectives. You compare apples to banana. You assume that because one person with different gear than someone else with different gear can do the same things because someone else does it therefor your points are sound because you have said them multiple times.

Templars have been the kings of pvp since 2008/2009. They have been pretty much undisputed.

I have said several times the only REASON I made an axe was because of templars dmg output. Tell me im wrong. You are so blase to the fact that templars are so out of balance that ynk would release 100% dd potential becoming a much easier acheivement. When before max dd was 99.8% dd assuming you has 2 weapons with 74% dd on each.

Since I play an avenger people all assume that I can kill a templar because of storm assault. I guess they miss the fact that AS soon as I cast storm to atk a temp. Im being debuffed.

So my closing argument to this thread is as follows.

I wont support dd nerf until templars dmg is well below 20k dmg per auto attack. So while I dont see this happening any time soon. The main reason I made this axe was when envi walked out hit me for 44k followed by a 75k dmg crit on 65% dd that means that she hits no dd targets for somewhere around 100k dmg in PVP close to 150-200k dmg crits. While using Envi may be an extreme case. There are many other temps easily doing 20k + while even **** tier temps are still pushing 8-12k aa's.

100% dmg drop makes that dmg they do. "Manageable"