Human offhand boost

[TheHellHunter]

It's pointless to go for anything but a glacial sword. I don't care how much attack speed you have, 68% attack force is going to out-damage 35% attack force in most circumstances.

Rather, this is the case especially on Jin. Due to insanely-high DD values on Ran, attack speed/crit might actually be more worthwhile just because increasing dps via dph is more difficult to pull off on high DD than increasing dps via attack speed. That being said, the difference between glacial and tali is likely enough where glacial DPS will outweigh that of the tali in either server.

[Kophy]

I don't like the idea of a hard cap on DD.... This is better !

Before any fix can be made, the issue of 60+ dd needs to be solved. They said they aren't going to change upg's to epics so thats out of the question. They can't simply apply a hard cap to dd because then 70 dd has the same value as 60dd. Its not so much the excessive HP as it is the excessive DD and Pdef.

I think currently DD is completely linear, and works like it logically should. But what if they changed it to be more of a log shaped curve. Too lazy to go and figure out the basic math of it all but doing this could boost lower DD (3x-4x, thus balancing divinity a little bit where temps are foking ridiculous) and lowering the effect of upper DD (So instead of 60-70 being regular DD its more like 55-60)



Pro paint skills, yea? Blue line is DD as it is. Red line is DD if they manipulated it. Once we're dealing with more similar DD between servers, its alot easier to start any sort of a balance.

[PrinceOfDaSouth]

remove dd, uncode it from all weapons and make it according to how sexy you are IRL, Im covered in chocolate syrup atm so I win

[TheHellHunter]

My biggest issue with it is that it's kind of difficult to make work. Most attack:defense:damage formulas are based like that, however doing so with something as conceptually basic as DD is difficult, especially since it just gives a percentage in which it would reduce the numbers by. Realistically displaying that is kind of difficult. While I agree with the notion, and this is how AD is supposed to work, it's just not really conceivable.

Hence why I just support the notion of a cap and increased base values. A percentage modifier actually turns the DD issue into an exponential curve versus a logarithmic one - literally the opposite of how it'd be optimized. A base increase followed by a flat cap at 65% much better represents a logarithmic shape through the very low spectrum such that people getting 2x%/low 3x% rolls get a much bigger boost compared to say, someone in the 40% area.

Yea I understand upgrade users use upgrades because of the crazy DD, but remember that the "mean" upgrade DD is 60% (36 is the mean DD value + 24 on the upgrade parts). Ultimately this allows say the 41% DD base value to be maxed, which is approximately equal to the "high" tier rolls on DD, generally.

I took this into account already when proposing the 65% number on the other thread, Koph :P

[Kophy]

But then that eliminates half the advantage of dual wielding for defs, devalues 65+ dd and doesn't fix anything as far as DD disparity which is the biggest roadblock to any sort of a balance. Its hard to do? Its hard to come up with a simple math formula to modify percentages? Man I know the developers are monkeys but how is that hard to do lol? I took AP Calculus last year and never have to take math again but even I know how to do this....

[Gadwin83]

It's pointless to go for anything but a glacial sword. I don't care how much attack speed you have, 68% attack force is going to out-damage 35% attack force in most circumstances.

Rather, this is the case especially on Jin. Due to insanely-high DD values on Ran, attack speed/crit might actually be more worthwhile just because increasing dps via dph is more difficult to pull off on high DD than increasing dps via attack speed. That being said, the difference between glacial and tali is likely enough where glacial DPS will outweigh that of the tali in either server.

How would dd change that at all? Whatever comes out ahead on the high dd is going to come out ahead on the low dd. If one came out ahead 100k to 80k over 30 seconds of swing on a 0 dd target, adding 50dd would just mean it'd end up 50k to 40k.

Besides from that, if dual glacial can't do more then twice the damage per hit as dual crafted, which I'd love to test with full boss drops but am too poor, wouldnt the crafted with its extra 52% attack speed and 15% crit come out on top? If not tali even with all the extra str/dex factored in on top of that, how do you think sage would hold up? Aren't the base stats higher?

[Gadwin83]

My biggest issue with it is that it's kind of difficult to make work. Most attack:defense:damage formulas are based like that, however doing so with something as conceptually basic as DD is difficult, especially since it just gives a percentage in which it would reduce the numbers by. Realistically displaying that is kind of difficult. While I agree with the notion, and this is how AD is supposed to work, it's just not really conceivable.

Hence why I just support the notion of a cap and increased base values. A percentage modifier actually turns the DD issue into an exponential curve versus a logarithmic one - literally the opposite of how it'd be optimized. A base increase followed by a flat cap at 65% much better represents a logarithmic shape through the very low spectrum such that people getting 2x%/low 3x% rolls get a much bigger boost compared to say, someone in the 40% area.

Yea I understand upgrade users use upgrades because of the crazy DD, but remember that the "mean" upgrade DD is 60% (36 is the mean DD value + 24 on the upgrade parts). Ultimately this allows say the 41% DD base value to be maxed, which is approximately equal to the "high" tier rolls on DD, generally.

I took this into account already when proposing the 65% number on the other thread, Koph :P

Sir, I was wondering from someone that has been around longer then I. While working on upgrading my gear recently, I noticed that upgrading my 5 pieces of armor adds more to the white defense number on my armor, then upgrading 1 weapon adds to the base damage. Do these numbers sort of cancel each other on a 1 to 1 ratio? Like if I was hitting myself for 1000 damage, then upgraded my armor to add a total of 100 defense to the white value, then upgraded my weapon to +100 base attack, would I still be hitting myself for 1000 damage?

I'm trying to decide if its worth trying to roll any armor up past +8 or if that's generally not as effective as just trying to roll glacials with as much dd as possible.

[Kophy]

Spend 5 minutes in excel and yeah,



Not perfect, bad for lower DD's even but just showing how its not hard

[TheHellHunter]

It just causes a slight shift which as a percentage of low to high closes the gap further. As a ratio, if you compare the minimum to the maximum of DD values, the current minimum (23%) and the current maximum when divided net a result of .46, whereas if a static +8 is added, this ratio turns into .535, delineating the ratio and allowing lower-tier rolls to compare better. I'm not really sure what you mean with the 100k/80k example.

Dual glacial should deal double the damage output as dual crafted. It's important to keep defense thresholds in mind, though. Beyond overbearing a defense threshold, damage modifiers ultimately gain more power and deal much more damage than a fixed value. It's getting above and beyond the target's defense which allows high damage to be dealt. Just getting there and gaining bonus attack speed isn't going to do much. Also remember that 51% attack speed translates to only 51% more damage. I'm almost positive that 102% attack force does much more damage than 52% attack force attacking only 1.5 times the speed. Even on a linear damage output graph, the DPS would be higher by dual-wielding glacials.

As far as exactly how damage is calculated with enhances to the weapon/armor and maximizing cost, again, it depends on defense thresholds and the person attacking you. While I don't exactly know the effectiveness, I'll just state right now that going for +8 on a whole set will probably be about the same as gaining a couple % more DD on other endgame or near-maxed opponents. The more damage they deal to you, the more effective DD is. The less damage, the more effective armor will be at mitigating their attacks.

[PrinceOfDaSouth]

Spend 5 minutes in excel and yeah,



Not perfect, bad for lower DD's even but just showing how its not hard

I can draw lines too coffee, look my chart, I made it faster then you