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  1. #11
    I do find it pretty interesting that the servers have opposite problems with dhans, kinda funny, too op on jin, On Ran you gotta spend to matter or lvl 6 suicide which is gay

  2. #12
    i tickle otto all the time when hes on HK xD

  3. #13
    Hmmm... in this case, I think the solution to Avenger balance can't be proposed by looking at Avenger skills directly, but by fixing other things on other characters. I think the biggest problem in Ran is there's just too much DD and HP for avengers to truly be useful. In Jin, just about every temp has 38 DD (all the good temps use crafted clubs) and most vit dekans have 40-45 DD. Iirc, Most people on Ran run 65+ DD, 80+ if you're a human. Also on Jin, many dps classes (like Rangers, Avengers, Preds, etc) run Weapon Attack instead of DD, also reducing the overall defense that an Avenger has to break through. So I think that's where the main problem lies, not in the Avenger tree/damage output itself, but in the defensive thresholds of Ran and Jin, and a balance/solution would probably have to come addressing that imbalance before we can proceed to propose any changes to Avengers. For example, if we pushed Jin closer to the defense threshold of Ran, then yes they would need a nerf. However, if we capped DD at say, 60% and got rid of teardrops, then avengers stand pretty well.

  4. #14
    Lat loves it when I call them fail dhans haha, I wish 60% dd was the most I faced, add the to the pdef you get from 250k hp, and you better hit like a truck to cut it down.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by egyptiansk8r View Post
    Exactly my point. The point of this isn't to compare a Jin dhan vs Ran dhan though, its to compare Ran dhans vs other Ran characters compared to Jin dhans vs other Jin characters. Dhans are certainly far from being nonfactors on Jin, they're quite scary and in most cases, are a bigger concern in group pvp's than templars and vit dekans. That's how big the difference is between Ran and Jin. I've seen avengers here DPP 70-80k+ at 110. On fully geared characters.
    Just out of curiousity what are you using for gear and on what builds to get hit for that much? I've been on a full str human, max heroic, usually about 20dd with my leech weapons on and a monkey so I have no crit reduction. I only recall one time a non-scrolled/full buffed dhan came up and dpp'd me and it was 9k/9k, not really that overwhelming. Not sure if he just sucked balls or scrolls just make that much of a difference. When I was using +5 glacials with like 9x/low 100 pdef I saw a lot of 30k/30ks from buffed/scrolled dhans. I've since upgraded and most my armor is +7/+8 17x pdef and see a lot of 20k/20k from dhans. Most I've ever seen was a 40k/40k after the last patch, so I just assumed that was with the charge skill. Wasn't really watching just saw it in my combat log when I was hk'ing. That same dhan also hit me later on that night when I was paying attention and saw he had no charge going for sure and it was 20k/20k.

    Yeah they're tough but I kinda figured if I popped a lion instead of a monkey and had full dd gear on, or pp/dpp can be blocked with a shield, that at least I could get that down to a survivable amount. I'm just kinda curious if the armor upgrades were worth it in respect to fighting dhans, or if I only have the moderately pro dhans that like to kill me and not the pro pro dhans lol.

    In terms of OP classes I really didn't mind dhans on Jin nearly as much as temps or vit dekans. While they can do some nasty burst damage, there are a lot more skills in game capable of effectively countering a dhan then their are a vit dekan or templar.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadwin83 View Post
    Just out of curiousity what are you using for gear and on what builds to get hit for that much? I've been on a full str human, max heroic, usually about 20dd with my leech weapons on and a monkey so I have no crit reduction. I only recall one time a non-scrolled/full buffed dhan came up and dpp'd me and it was 9k/9k, not really that overwhelming. Not sure if he just sucked balls or scrolls just make that much of a difference. When I was using +5 glacials with like 9x/low 100 pdef I saw a lot of 30k/30ks from buffed/scrolled dhans. I've since upgraded and most my armor is +7/+8 17x pdef and see a lot of 20k/20k from dhans. Most I've ever seen was a 40k/40k after the last patch, so I just assumed that was with the charge skill. Wasn't really watching just saw it in my combat log when I was hk'ing. That same dhan also hit me later on that night when I was paying attention and saw he had no charge going for sure and it was 20k/20k.

    Yeah they're tough but I kinda figured if I popped a lion instead of a monkey and had full dd gear on, or pp/dpp can be blocked with a shield, that at least I could get that down to a survivable amount. I'm just kinda curious if the armor upgrades were worth it in respect to fighting dhans, or if I only have the moderately pro dhans that like to kill me and not the pro pro dhans lol.

    In terms of OP classes I really didn't mind dhans on Jin nearly as much as temps or vit dekans. While they can do some nasty burst damage, there are a lot more skills in game capable of effectively countering a dhan then their are a vit dekan or templar.

    your rocking 20dd buddy, means for me dpending on your pdef you get hit @50-60k and easy 10k+inv normal, on Jin they should hit a bit harder since they use glacials and are the epidemy of a glass cannon. I think you should meet skeet on Jin lol

    Im guessing at the numbers cause im not sure what it feels like to hit 20dd, probably never hit someone with that little

  7. #17
    No idea why I don't see those huge numbers. Maybe dhans all have an agreement to put on ****ty katars before face raping me just to give me false hope I won't always be a one shot.

  8. #18
    27 DD on a buffed up Wizard with ~5-6k pdef and TheDude busted me for 60k DPP. I think Skeet rocked me around 70k. I remember a long time ago when I wasn't even close to properly geared, I had Skeet hit me for 150k DPP. But that doesn't count :P lol. Anyways, remember whenever you get pk'd they most likely don't have empower. And YES, scrolls do account for a HUGE additional damage boost, so its possible there was a difference in scrolls or buffs between your comparisons. Plus Storm Assault can get ridiculous now, before you brought it up, we haven't even brought it in to this as a factor. IF (and it's a big if) a good str avenger is allowed to pound on a party for long enough without GMI up, their storm assault is gonna build up to a RIDICULOUS amount, enough to get pretty good DPP's at that point and possibly even 1 shot a vit dekan.

  9. #19
    I think there's just too many hypothetical situations with Avengers where it'll just have to wait until some other things get adjusted in the game (like what ends up happening with overall DD for everyone) and then going from there. Until we have a solid DD rate to go off of, there's no balance suggestions that will fix both servers.

    For example, if everyone got pushed towards 6x DD, then we can see what average str dhans hit for, and what pro str dhans hit for, and come up with a reasonable suggested damage output and see what can be tweaked/balanced from there.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by egyptiansk8r View Post
    I think there's just too many hypothetical situations with Avengers where it'll just have to wait until some other things get adjusted in the game (like what ends up happening with overall DD for everyone) and then going from there. Until we have a solid DD rate to go off of, there's no balance suggestions that will fix both servers.

    For example, if everyone got pushed towards 6x DD, then we can see what average str dhans hit for, and what pro str dhans hit for, and come up with a reasonable suggested damage output and see what can be tweaked/balanced from there.
    am hoping that happens, 6x dd is normal for me to face actually it will lower what im used to probably

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