Information Gathering of Current Classes

[FrontlinerCDV]

I guess its the players themselves that know the races inside and out, The Gms don't spend as much time as we do playing/ pvping with them right? (well I assume that to be the case) so why not come to us for the video input needed. We the community know what works and what doesn't. As stupid as that sounds, that's mho.

The thing is(as I said before), you'll gain so many different approaches and fixes as to what makes balance, I mean just look at the amount of players arguing about whether Reflect should stay or be removed, just take me for example, I will say that it should stay that way if certain other nerfs are made, others want it removed completely, the next one wants it butchered(no chrono-reflect), yaddayadda. And that's just 1 skill from like idk, 20 per class? And -talking about the GMs- how do they know the difference between a reasonable idea and a retarded one? What happens if you combine 2 different ideas regarding 2 different things, will that still be balanced? And what is "balanced" to begin with? Where do you want to equalize the classes?

[Gadwin83]

I guess its the players themselves that know the races inside and out, The Gms don't spend as much time as we do playing/ pvping with them right? (well I assume that to be the case) so why not come to us for the video input needed. We the community know what works and what doesn't. As stupid as that sounds, that's mho.

Learn the races inside and out? How much is there to learn? You pretty much just dump all your stat points into one stat, and when people talk about their "builds" they are mostly common sense. If you look at a "build" for any specific class they're all like 90% the same, as in all vit dekans are practically the same, all str guardians practically the same, all temps practically the same, etc. You end up with most of your skills being the obvious best choices and a couple skills people are going to argue back and forth take x or take y but over all impact is really minimal. Even if you don't know the exact coding behind every skill, as most players don't, its really not that hard to figure out whats the best when blunt mastery is doing so much more damage then what anything else does your silly for playing other things.

A game like this the only learning curve is learning to play as a team, but currently all that really amounts to is your on a templar destroying everything, or on a support toon supporting said templar to keep him alive longer. There is no real tactics involved anymore.

[temtin05]

THH and Atzigan,




Nothing special... just compare this video to the first one..

Shows the difference between non-armor-stat-stones vs full-armor-stat-stones
See how much inflated the melee was and the HP. Take note i have 95k hp without marea's grace
quadra negative melee without intensity.. considering im using only 100int weapon stones.. what more if its 250 on weapon or 200stat on armors?

Business wise it is good. But it kills the game. Who would be happy if I hit every1 35k normals and 50k crits?

and people should start posting pvp vids and stop whinning.. wont do any help. Ill try to make more vids during actual pvp's.
Im lvling a scout and Ill make a video of how useless they are QQ need to fix them soon.

Thanks ^^

[kromantian]

Chaos,

I honor you for joining SG.

I honor you for having to handle those stupid Guild Tags.

[Atzigan]

Not because it's written here it will happen as the player describes it. As I said I want every players perspective that would like to pitch in something to this thread following the rules. If you have nothing to pitch in, it's fine, no reason to bash it. I can't listen to just one player, this is to listen to the players opinions. Keep it on topic please, not following the rules will result in forum suspension.

[Gadwin83]

Aztigan, I'm just curious if you could take the time to answer. If Korea were to give you whatever you wanted in terms of changes for game balancing...how do you intend to balance around upgrade DD?

When you have people on Ran with 90+ dd and skill defense the amount of damage required to kill such players is going to be so incredibly high that it will break Jin(and all but the the upper few % of Ran players with super high dd upgrades) if it exists in the game, yet if such damage does not exist your going to end up with people practically as unkillable as when they had 100% dd...arguably even harder to kill because while everyone can hit them for token amounts of damage since the offhand nerf, skill defense now nerfs vit dekans, which was the only damage bypassing 100% dd to kill them before.

I just really want to know what the plan is here, because I'm really doubtful there's a way to balance things around not only the huge dd gap between servers, but even between the haves and the have nots on Ran.

[PrinceOfDaSouth]

Because weapons on Jin aren't an issue. I don't think you realize what a piece of **** your dhan is going to be because of upgrade DD soon as people start using skill defense. Even if your consistently hitting 150k dpp's, factor in 70dd and 36% skill defense, which isn't too tough to hit and is likely going to be a range people with good epics are close too for damage mitigation. Templars might be a little lower on the dd but are going to have more skill defense off their shield, and dual wield humans are probably going to be higher on the dd and right at 36% skill defense.

150 x .3 x .64 = 28880 damage, against people that all have inflated hp...yeah thats not going to be an issue. Have fun never being able to kill anyone who's willing to click a pot.

Good luck if you come across one of those dual wield humans over 80, or even 90 dd. You'll be lucky if a dpp is even hitting 10ks. Do you see why upgrades are stupid yet? Nothing is going to be balanced around those broken numbers, even if you ignore Jin you could never even balance Ran when you have a handful of people that are going to be over 90 dd, and other people in the 5x range. You can't balance anything when you have a minority of players taking 1/5 of the damage other players are taking.

PvP in Ran isn't so unbalanced, The only people who get 1 shot are (A. people with less then 110 ish hp, and this only happens with a certain few vit fish and (B people who have no dd, Temps hit hard yes, a little too hard yes, the solution for Ran is in a permanent upgrade/epic sale,(this is a P2W game after all) and a slight nerf in temps. Now Jin is a different story, I imagine dhans, fish, and temps 1 shot each other regularly, which doesn't sound so fun to me. Anyway I only wanted to argue the point that taking away the Up/Epics is not a good idea from my POV, is actually the reason I like ran. If Im on Jin with my gear and a glacial weapon and I can 1-2 shot anybody on server, It seems kinda boring to me. Just my opinion and way off topic for this thread, sorry for that.

Vids please, I can log now, and let some temps whack me, but my internet is piped in by a monkey peddling a bicycle ,so if i try to make videos I will dc like crazy

[PrinceOfDaSouth]

Aztigan, I'm just curious if you could take the time to answer. If Korea were to give you whatever you wanted in terms of changes for game balancing...how do you intend to balance around upgrade DD?

When you have people on Ran with 90+ dd and skill defense the amount of damage required to kill such players is going to be so incredibly high that it will break Jin(and all but the the upper few % of Ran players with super high dd upgrades) if it exists in the game, yet if such damage does not exist your going to end up with people practically as unkillable as when they had 100% dd...arguably even harder to kill because while everyone can hit them for token amounts of damage since the offhand nerf, skill defense now nerfs vit dekans, which was the only damage bypassing 100% dd to kill them before.

I just really want to know what the plan is here, because I'm really doubtful there's a way to balance things around not only the huge dd gap between servers, but even between the haves and the have nots on Ran.

+1 hard cap is the best idea, I could live with 70% or so myself

[Gadwin83]

+1 hard cap is the best idea, I could live with 70% or so myself

Would it be all that terrible if they were to do a hard cap, and capped it at perhaps 50%, so Ran's closer to Jin, then maybe started making costumes that favor +defense over +attack.

I suspect 36% skill defense is going to be a fairly common number in the near future, and skills that are going to get modified by 50% dd then 36% skill defense would be roughly the equivalent of 68% dd, shield builds would come out a little higher since you can get extra skill defense on shields. Plus the costume changes could make everyone's regulars hit a little weaker as we'd all be losing a bit of attack and gaining a bit of defense, so realistically it would put Ran in pretty much the same place it was at before skill defense was introduced, and make balance between the servers possible.

But it should be fairly obvious why I proposed the question I did to Aztigan, because if your trying to balance 90dd with 45dd, which is the range on Ran between epic users and dual upgrade users, the poor guy with 45dd is essentially going to be taking over 5x the damage as the guy with 90dd. Good luck balancing that. As much as upgrade fanbois complain about the low dd on Jin, if you got your cheap 35dd weapon and some other dude has his pro 45dd weapon, thats less then a 20% difference in incoming damage.

Now I'd just like to ask you, or anyone who could give me a reasonable answer...what is a value on ran that a templar regular could hit through 70dd that won't make them too weak on Ran, and won't make them stupidly OP on Jin vs 40dd. Keep in mind, 40dd is taking double the damage of 70dd.

[Kraszer]

Not the mention the overpowered stats on renforced drops, crafting is practially dead now comparing to the upgraded boss drops which also give another boost for temps/dhans/guard/and so on.