Elf Balance Patch Info!

[yinggamer]

This it what happens when:
1. You play for almost a decade but still don't know game mechanics.
2. You think math works only in classrooms.

If you know both of them you can easily calculate blunt mastery changes and how negligible they are.

You lose ONLY:
1. less than 100 flat melee attack
2. 25 milliseconds of attack delay

You easily cry for basically nothing.
You make me remember a movie where a spoiled kid cry for having only 32 gifts when he expected 33.

[sunnyangel]

Factor in party buffs & scrolls you reach the intersection point real quick vs. normal classes on party buffs/scrolls even with a lesser base as gear. Don't forget that the exponetial scaling gives you a flat amount of exponentially generated melee which is further boosted by percentage wise boosts.
(A full abyss set +5 gives you 1516 of ur main stat + like 400-500 all stats? factor in 1k title etc you don't even need rediculous gear to reach high intel just endgame lvl/title/abyss and some rings)

Now factor in you can gain an UNLIMITED amount of stats trans thoughout time, you could in the future have full gear +5 and still reach 5 million melee.

I wouldnt factor in party buffs or the optimal setup when looking at the average player. Scrolls are good but a moot point considering that they are not worth using in today's rohan. Abyss set is nice for sure but does the average player have the 1k title? And if trans stats is unlimited that is absurd for sure but other classes such as preds scale the same way. I could argue that a predator with the same equipment investment and trans stats with the optimal party setup would kill the same target as you with just as much speed.

[Mixture]

This it what happens when:
1. You play for almost a decade but still don't know game mechanics.
2. You think math works only in classrooms.

If you know both of them you can easily calculate blunt mastery changes and how negligible they are.

You lose ONLY:
1. less than 100 flat melee attack
2. 25 milliseconds of attack delay

You easily cry for basically nothing.
You make me remember a movie where a spoiled kid cry for having only 32 gifts when he expected 33.

I can easily address you without breaking a sweat. blunt dmg was never the main source of dmg for Templars so the decrease was never questioned. GM clearly acknowledged the reasons for other buff and nerfs which made sense especially because Templars were very inferior self-buffed. But no matter, people like you come with "less than 100 flat melee attack" like it was even part of the conversation (an example of putting your head where it doesn't belong and cry that it wont come back out) and then go on to calculate that 18% decrease in att speed is 25 milliseconds. I have been playing the game for almost a decade sometimes on and off. Lets say you are right, i can easily see the effects of your so called 25 millisecond delay with my eyes and my dmg effectiveness when i attack (its ALOT when it comes down to PvP) and that is without resulting calculations. Experience is everything! noobs like you cant understand.

I can already tell that the fact that you think 25 milliseconds of delay is negligible is because you are a noob who started playing the game yesterday. Understand this, DAMAGE OUTPUT and DAMAGE EFFECTIVENESS are two completely different things. For example, a Dhans crit dmg is more damage effective when you apply crit rate!, and that effectiveness scales with crit rate. Same with Templars, their effectiveness is based off att speed. But of course, people like who started the game yesterday wont understand something like this and say its "crying". Give credit where credit is due, GM's were appreciated for their efforts in my very first post. The changes are decent and almost all make sense.

"You lose ONLY" expand your horizon lol. The word ONLY Lose is for weaklings.

[Mixture]

I wouldnt factor in party buffs or the optimal setup when looking at the average player. Scrolls are good but a moot point considering that they are not worth using in today's rohan. Abyss set is nice for sure but does the average player have the 1k title? And if trans stats is unlimited that is absurd for sure but other classes such as preds scale the same way. I could argue that a predator with the same equipment investment and trans stats with the optimal party setup would kill the same target as you with just as much speed.

Yes, this is indeed correct.

[snipers334]

Stupidity at work, I will say it one last time so maybe your peanut brain MIGHT understand. The issue was never blunt you idiot it was att speed but ofc only what is in front of you you see. it hurts you so much that i am right. Hence your explosion to comparison.

I deal with idiots like you on a daily basis, idiots who try to hide behind words. From how you think "I'm just pointing out that you're dumb and inferior to me, ingame and irl luuuuuul." especially without knowing me both in game and in irl life, i can tell you are just a spoilt kid.

The fact that an 18% attackspeed nerf makes you tick like this tells me enough xD. I don't need to know you well to know that I'm more intelligent both ingame and outside of it (int meme inteded )

I wouldnt factor in party buffs or the optimal setup when looking at the average player. Scrolls are good but a moot point considering that they are not worth using in today's rohan. Abyss set is nice for sure but does the average player have the 1k title? And if trans stats is unlimited that is absurd for sure but other classes such as preds scale the same way. I could argue that a predator with the same equipment investment and trans stats with the optimal party setup would kill the same target as you with just as much speed.

Why not factor in party buffs? You can't buff eachother anymore, this game is based on partying to PVP/PVE. Not factoring that in wouldn't make sense. Rohan isn't a 1v1 game and you know it. It is true that not everyone can currently get 1k title and OP gears but many WILL get those in the future. Since KR decided to released Rohan M globally they will spend less time developin the PC one (I mean the community and thus revenu is much smaller than the mobile one). This will most likely mean we won't be getting another balance patch any time soon.

''I could argue that a predator with the same equipment investment and trans stats with the optimal party setup would kill the same target as you with just as much speed''

But that's the thing it doensn't. First of you can easily block critical damage with anti-crit scrolls or loop from rumir (not even talking about wizard anti crit or temps ult) so there are ways to counter the damage. The only real way to reduce damage from templars/sages is to use obli from priest, which works for any kind of damage (also crits) so it's not really a good comparison. The invenom of dhans got nerfed and doesn't scale with dd-pen. Also any kind of damage is linear meaning with every x agi you get extra your damage goes up by factor x

As I have shown in the graph, this is not the case for templars/sages. You know how their buffs work and you know the intel-multiplier makes them gain exponential melee attack. (as example) at 5k intel you might have 100k melee, at 10k intel you suddenly have 500k melee and at 20k intel you are at 3 million melee.

I can easily address you without breaking a sweat. blunt dmg was never the main source of dmg for Templars so the decrease was never questioned. GM clearly acknowledged the reasons for other buff and nerfs which made sense especially because Templars were very inferior self-buffed. But no matter, people like you come with "less than 100 flat melee attack" like it was even part of the conversation (an example of putting your head where it doesn't belong and cry that it wont come back out) and then go on to calculate that 18% decrease in att speed is 25 milliseconds. I have been playing the game for almost a decade sometimes on and off. Lets say you are right, i can easily see the effects of your so called 25 millisecond delay with my eyes and my dmg effectiveness when i attack (its ALOT when it comes down to PvP) and that is without resulting calculations. Experience is everything! noobs like you cant understand.

I can already tell that the fact that you think 25 milliseconds of delay is negligible is because you are a noob who started playing the game yesterday. Understand this, DAMAGE OUTPUT and DAMAGE EFFECTIVENESS are two completely different things. For example, a Dhans crit dmg is more damage effective when you apply crit rate!, and that effectiveness scales with crit rate. Same with Templars, their effectiveness is based off att speed. But of course, people like who started the game yesterday wont understand something like this and say its "crying". Give credit where credit is due, GM's were appreciated for their efforts in my very first post. The changes are decent and almost all make sense.

"You lose ONLY" expand your horizon lol. The word ONLY Lose is for weaklings.

blunt dmg was never the main source of dmg for Templars
I'm not entirely sure what you smoke but it must have seriously affected your ability to comprehend the most simple things or maybe, you were just born like this, who knows lmao.

like it was even part of the conversation
You started crying about ''10% blunt nerf'' after which I explained how it works and now you're mad at yourself for bringing it up because you got slapped with your own example.

I have been playing the game for almost a decade sometimes on and off
If you've been around for about 10 years and you still can't comprehend the most basic game mechanics LOOOOOOL ''blunt dmg was never the main source of dmg for Templars'' I'm actually crying from laughter

Understand this, DAMAGE OUTPUT and DAMAGE EFFECTIVENESS are two completely different things. For example, a Dhans crit dmg is more damage effective when you apply crit rate!, and that effectiveness scales with crit rate. Same with Templars, their effectiveness is based off att speed.

The more you type, the less sense you make. The damage output of a character is formulated as ''Total damage per unit of time'' otherwise known as DPS or Damage Per Second. If you want to take the examle of dhan, critrate, melee attack, agility, attackspeed are all stats that contribute to your final DPS either in the ''time'' unit or the ''damage'' unit of the abbreviation.

Get schooled buddy, you're embarrassing yourself more with every post, I have my doubts you finished primary school lmfao.

[yinggamer]

I can easily address you without breaking a sweat. blunt dmg was never the main source of dmg for Templars so the decrease was never questioned. GM clearly acknowledged the reasons for other buff and nerfs which made sense especially because Templars were very inferior self-buffed. But no matter, people like you come with "less than 100 flat melee attack" like it was even part of the conversation (an example of putting your head where it doesn't belong and cry that it wont come back out) and then go on to calculate that 18% decrease in att speed is 25 milliseconds. I have been playing the game for almost a decade sometimes on and off. Lets say you are right, i can easily see the effects of your so called 25 millisecond delay with my eyes and my dmg effectiveness when i attack (its ALOT when it comes down to PvP) and that is without resulting calculations. Experience is everything! noobs like you cant understand.

I can already tell that the fact that you think 25 milliseconds of delay is negligible is because you are a noob who started playing the game yesterday. Understand this, DAMAGE OUTPUT and DAMAGE EFFECTIVENESS are two completely different things. For example, a Dhans crit dmg is more damage effective when you apply crit rate!, and that effectiveness scales with crit rate. Same with Templars, their effectiveness is based off att speed. But of course, people like who started the game yesterday wont understand something like this and say its "crying". Give credit where credit is due, GM's were appreciated for their efforts in my very first post. The changes are decent and almost all make sense.

"You lose ONLY" expand your horizon lol. The word ONLY Lose is for weaklings.

HAHAHA!

This is "EGO" talking now.

Your first post:
"Damage: The self-buffed damage of Templars increased slightly but their attack speed became slightly (s)lower" the word slightly is an understatement, from 30% -> 12% att speed is not slightly in my opinion.

I appreciate your efforts to increase self-buffed dmg output because it was ridiculously low. But i noticed you have also reduced the effectiveness of regular attacks by reducing the Att Speed considerably. Why? I understand your reasons for nerf-ing blunt dmg by 10% (at lvl 7) since you buffed stats but please justify why you reduced the Att Speed by that much percentage. I am not asking for change, just justification so i understand. Thank you.

25 milliseconds decrease in attack delay fits the definition of the word "SLIGHTLY". Come on man! You can comprehend this. Lets be honest here. You have a subjective sense of of how attackspeed works but I have the numbers to show. If the difference is above 100 ms then we can have a REAL argument here.

PS: You're already answered by White Arctic Fox. Don't worry my friend, since the blunt mastery was not change from "CONVERSION" to "INT-BASED" (lucky for RBF templars), a new era of templar fest lurks in the future. The SLIGHT decrease in attackspeed is actually a futile effort to prevent that. I think one of the reason why blunt mastery was not change to int base is to prevent templar fanboys (does that include you?) from quitting. RBF doesn't want their cash cows quit.

[Mixture]

The fact that an 18% attackspeed nerf makes you tick like this tells me enough xD. I don't need to know you well to know that I'm more intelligent both ingame and outside of it (int meme inteded



Why not factor in party buffs? You can't buff eachother anymore, this game is based on partying to PVP/PVE. Not factoring that in wouldn't make sense. Rohan isn't a 1v1 game and you know it. It is true that not everyone can currently get 1k title and OP gears but many WILL get those in the future. Since KR decided to released Rohan M globally they will spend less time developin the PC one (I mean the community and thus revenu is much smaller than the mobile one). This will most likely mean we won't be getting another balance patch any time soon.

''I could argue that a predator with the same equipment investment and trans stats with the optimal party setup would kill the same target as you with just as much speed''

But that's the thing it doens't. First of you can easily block critical damage with anti-crit scrolls or loop from rumir (not even talking about wizard anti crit or temps ult) so there are ways to counter the damage. The only real way to reduce damage from templars/sages is to use obli from priest, which works for any kind of damage (also crits) so it's not really a good comparison. The invenom of dhans got nerfed and doesn't scale with dd-pen. Also any kind of damage is linear meaning with every x agi you get extra your damage goes up by factor x

As I have shown in the graph, this is not the case for templars/sages. You know how their buffs work and you know the intel-multiplier makes them gain exponential melee attack. (as example) at 5k intel you might have 100k melee, at 10k intel you suddenly have 500k melee and at 20k intel you are at 3 million melee.



blunt dmg was never the main source of dmg for Templars
I'm not entirely sure what you smoke but it must have seriously affected your ability to comprehend the most simple things or maybe, you were just born like this, who knows lmao.

like it was even part of the conversation
You started crying about ''10% blunt nerf'' after which I explained how it works and now you're mad at yourself for bringing it up because you got slapped with your own example.

I have been playing the game for almost a decade sometimes on and off
If you've been around for about 10 years and you still can't comprehend the most basic game mechanics LOOOOOOL ''blunt dmg was never the main source of dmg for Templars'' I'm actually crying from laughter

Understand this, DAMAGE OUTPUT and DAMAGE EFFECTIVENESS are two completely different things. For example, a Dhans crit dmg is more damage effective when you apply crit rate!, and that effectiveness scales with crit rate. Same with Templars, their effectiveness is based off att speed.

The more you type, the less sense you make. The damage output of a character is formulated as ''Total damage per unit of time'' otherwise known as DPS or Damage Per Second. If you want to take the examle of dhan, critrate, melee attack, agility, attackspeed are all stats that contribute to your final DPS either in the ''time'' unit or the ''damage'' unit of the abbreviation.

Get schooled buddy, you're embarrassing yourself more with every post, I have my doubts you finished primary school lmfao.

ROBOT CONFIRMED!!!! you take what i say and answer something different.... meh you're retarded and very binary. Get lost! You say school school school everywhere, must mean that for you without school common sense dont exist? You are an idiot if you think school is the only source of knowledge. clearly even school didnt do anything positive to your non-existent IQ. like i say to every idiot who dont understand. Expand your horizon trololol

[Mixture]

HAHAHA!

This is "EGO" talking now.

Your first post:
"Damage: The self-buffed damage of Templars increased slightly but their attack speed became slightly (s)lower" the word slightly is an understatement, from 30% -> 12% att speed is not slightly in my opinion.

I appreciate your efforts to increase self-buffed dmg output because it was ridiculously low. But i noticed you have also reduced the effectiveness of regular attacks by reducing the Att Speed considerably. Why? I understand your reasons for nerf-ing blunt dmg by 10% (at lvl 7) since you buffed stats but please justify why you reduced the Att Speed by that much percentage. I am not asking for change, just justification so i understand. Thank you.

25 milliseconds decrease in attack delay fits the definition of the word "SLIGHTLY". Come on man! You can comprehend this. Lets be honest here. You have a subjective sense of of how attackspeed works but I have the numbers to show. If the difference is above 100 ms then we can have a REAL argument here.

PS: You're already answered by White Arctic Fox. Don't worry my friend, since the blunt mastery was not change from "CONVERSION" to "INT-BASED" (lucky for RBF templars), a new era of templar fest lurks in the future. The SLIGHT decrease in attackspeed is actually a futile effort to prevent that. I think one of the reason why blunt mastery was not change to int base is to prevent templar fanboys (does that include you?) from quitting. RBF doesn't want their cash cows quit.

Yes i also believe this is the reason. However, from a personal standpoint you think that 25 milliseconds is negligible. That is YOUR preference from a standpoint of numbers with no practical consideration, i have played templar long enough to know that 18% drop in att speed is significant from 30%. Templars are 18% slower at lvl 7 blunt when compared to previous 30%. FULL STOP. now they are only 12% faster at lvl 7. there is no maths involved just percentage according to the skill.

Which reminds me, let me see how you came up with your numbers. 25ms sounds VERY doggy. 18% slower is 25ms? SHOW ME YOUR CALCULATION hahahaha

[yinggamer]

Yes i also believe this is the reason. However, from a personal standpoint you think that 25 milliseconds is negligible. That is YOUR preference from a standpoint of numbers with no practical consideration, i have played templar long enough to know that 18% drop in att speed is significant from 30%. Which reminds me, let me see how you came up with your numbers. 25ms sounds VERY doggy. 18% slower is 25ms? SHOW ME YOUR CALCULATION hahahaha

Now we're talking! We're in the end game now.

I already show the formula from other post but allow me to post it here.

The numbers you see in Character window is the attack delay. It is the number of milliseconds counted between every two attacks.

Attack Delay = D / (1 + Total Attack Speed)
Where: D = weapon base attack delay in milliseconds (bow is 1000, dagger is 700, club is 900 etc...)

Now I assume you're a well geared templar (that's where the ego comes from) so your total attack speed self buff is:
UPG club = 50%
Ash stone = 38%
Tenis = 30%
Guarder = 15%
Old blunt mastery = 30%, New blunt mastery = 12%

(old)Attack Speed Total = 163% = 1.63
(new)Attack Speed Total = 145% = 1.45

D = 900 for clubs

(old)Attack Delay = 900/(1 + 1.63) = 342
(new)Attack Delay = 900/(1 + 1.45) = 367

new - old = 367 - 342 = 25 milliseconds (HERE"S YOUR ANSWER)

[snipers334]

ROBOT CONFIRMED!!!! you take what i say and answer something different.... meh you're retarded and very binary. Get lost! You say school school school everywhere, must mean that for you without school common sense dont exist? You are an idiot if you think school is the only source of knowledge. clearly even school didnt do anything positive to your non-existent IQ. like i say to every idiot who dont understand. Expand your horizon trololol

hmmmmm juicy XD

Yes i also believe this is the reason. However, from a personal standpoint you think that 25 milliseconds is negligible. That is YOUR preference from a standpoint of numbers with no practical consideration, i have played templar long enough to know that 18% drop in att speed is significant from 30%. Templars are 18% slower at lvl 7 blunt when compared to previous 30%. FULL STOP. now they are only 12% faster at lvl 7. there is no maths involved just percentage according to the skill.

Which reminds me, let me see how you came up with your numbers. 25ms sounds VERY doggy. 18% slower is 25ms? SHOW ME YOUR CALCULATION hahahaha

It's very intresting that you ask for a calculation when so far, every kind of math i've shown you resulted into a tiny Hiroshima in that walnut brain of yours. Anyway, like they say, 3th time's the charm xD

The numbers you see in Character window is the attack delay. It is the number of milliseconds counted between every two attacks.

Attack Delay = D / (1 + Total Attack Speed)
Where: D = weapon base attack delay in milliseconds (bow is 1000, dagger is 700, etc...)

So Erdi, you're equipped with upg bow (60%) and trans guarder (15%)
Total Attack Speed = 75% = 0.75

Attack Delay = 1000 / (1 + 0.75) = 571.43 = 571 (rounded down)

The Attack Delay will never reach 0 because, as we all know, rational functions of this form, 0 is an asymptote. You need infinite attack speed for it to be done.

Assuming following gear: (you said you're a proper geared templar so this should certainly be reachable for you)
- Upgraded club (50% AS)
- Silva pet (30%)
- Opaniel Guarder (15%)

(not counting party buffs or stones on weapon)

One handed mace: base D: 900
Before nerf: 30% AS Blunt --> 900/(1+0,5+0,3+0,15+0,3) = 900/(2,25) = 400,00
After nerf: 12% AS Blunt --> 900/(1+0,5+0,3+0,15+0,12) = 900/(2,07) = 434,78

With this setup the attackspeed delay difference between the old and new blunt mastery is 35MS (or 25MS if you use the 38% AS stone from Yinggamers example). This delay becomes less and less when the amount of attackspeed multipliers increases (e.g. rumir growth, having 38% AS stone on ur trans wep, priest ulti and so on). This is (like petebebz explained so well) due to the asymptotic nature of the way this formula works.

You've now seen: linear, exponential and asymptotes, I just hope you're keeping notes and prevent me from making more quotes so that I don't have to devote any more time to sink that ship you're in that to begin with, was never afloat.