DD Items Poll~

[crussandra]

LOOOOOOOOOL this guys talk a lot sh1t, why u posting PH videos? Its IRohan no nab ph server

you can watch my Irohan Videos also after I had post those in utube this is the result: QQ sessions in forums LOOL

example: Im sure you might have another reason. . . . . . . . . . . to QQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFflnJ_x8Bk

[sh1n1gami]

I usually never write anything on the forums because it isn't appreciated anyhow, but I'll try to make this post an exception to the rule.
Most of you if not all have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Everyone seems to only post the stuff when they are winning and can't take a defeat.
The first thing people need to learn about Rohan is the fact that it is impossible to get any char maxed. They started to create their game in such a way that whatever you do, regardless how many money you put inside you'll never even get to see a glimpse of what is maxed. This whole issue started with the addition of the reinforcement system.

A in a way interesting system to enhance your items driven to a ridiculous point. (In order to prove this just take a look on the stat increasement of an upgraded boss accessory
We'll take a Feather of Goddess Silva (Wood) since it's the most com'n one in game at this point.
Feather of Goddess Silva (Wood) +0 = 20 all stats 500 HP 300 attack
Feather of Goddess Silva (Wood) + 6 = 52 all stats 641 HP 352 attack
Feather of Goddess Silva (Wood) + 12 = 95 all stats 839 HP 421 attack
Feather of Goddess Silva (Wood) + 18 = 153 all stats 1215 HP 537 attack
Feather of Goddess Silva (Wood) + 30 = about 322 all stats 3500 HP 1200 attack (I never seen one an I'm too tired to write the entire table of improvements to get a better solution)
Still it's very obvious that every next enhancement increases is huge. The reason to point this out is the recent changes with the server merge. They decreased the chances of reinforcement by a significant amount compared to the old (Ran) rates. This means that where in the past you were able to reach a certain improvement now you would have to settle for less. Previously people were going for +12 or +18 and with the current rates you can compare it to +9 and +14. This means that for every new player obtaining the same "power level" as the older players is impossible unless you buy them through the exchange market. This will apply now also towards the Walter's Medal the "STAT" Talisman and Upgrade Weapons (after the recent removal of Shiny Options).
For everyone who has been playing since the open Beta of Rohan they remember which huge shift in characters / damage / health and game play they caused.
In the first approximately 9 months of the game you had to farm all your gear. From Armors to Weapons to Accessories and your eye patch + earring.
Nowadays there isn't any single item you have to farm anymore, you have to buy everything with the small exception of Skill Defense Armor (if you can consider that farming) and Onyx Armor (takes about 1-2 weeks).
Everything else is depending on luck or how much you wanna invest in this game to buy reinforcement stones or play the website games.
Also where leveling used to mean a big deal in the game, they pushed it over the top with the new addition of levels 100-115 and the conqueror levels. People complain about the Hunter Kit because it makes mistakes (even though I've never seen it make any mistake yet. Everything is based upon how you set up your Hunter Kit.) and it makes the game play boring since everyone is away from the computer. Still the game is unplayable without the addition of the Hunter Kit. Considering it takes you with the current max rates 816 hours of active playing to reach level 1 to 115 +10.

Now to get back to the actual issue of Damage Drop. People are always complaining when things start to be unfair, now this is a major issue that cannot be fixed anymore. Rohan took a direction a long time ago to make more powerful items which can't be stopped anymore. This makes me take my statement of never remove any existing item to keep everything fair for the players. These include the following: Absolute Set, Fate Armor set (even though it's not used it has it's purpose), Upgrade Weapons / Accessories, Gold Trophy, Improved General Talisman, Regular / Magical "STAT" Talisman, Walter's Medal, Chimera Set.
The current rates of Damage Drop are needed because of the insane damage output of the characters. To be honest I can give a lot of suggestions to fix it, but there isn't any good straight forward way to fix it anymore. This has a lot of reasons. First of all everyone who actively PvPs knows about the strength of the Templars and the recent addition of Noir. But don't forget about the burst a Dekan can provide through Health or about the poison of a Dhan or the build of of Order Swing to Knight Symbol from a guardian.
Lowering any of the recent Damage Drop of characters or even specific classes makes Rohan enter the world of one hits. The damage will be outrages compared to the amount of health and you won't have any PvP anymore, you'll just get first hit first kill. Adding anymore Damage Drop to the game will enter you in the world of immortality, basically with healing or potions none is able to die anymore. This in term also kills any chance of PvP, the way around this would be to create a huge different in numbers aka 6 vs 1 to be able just to kill a single character.

[sh1n1gami]

Now that being said let's see if there are any options left to solve this problem. One way that has been suggested a lot of times in the past is to change Blunt Mastery and this would indeed be an easy way to deal with the amount of damage the Templar does. Yet this comes with a lot of problems. There are many way to change the skill itself, but it will have a big influence in game play so for the sake of it I'll try to make it understandable.
The first issue is of the so called "double dip" from both Magic & Melee boosting. This has always been part of the Templar and it should be removed! This because if you will take away the transfer from Magic towards Melee attack you'll encounter a few issue's. First issue is because of this transformation you prevent any Magic or Physical Defense to lower the amount of damage you deal. If you leave it towards Magic attack then Magic Defense will start to effect and you'll turn the Templar into a Wizard / Warlock / Rumir hit. If you leave it add Melee you first need to change the primary setting of the game that int provides Magic attack and not Melee attack. And after that they'll be the same as a Human / Avenger / Gaint / Noir and we have enough of those around already.

So the way to deal with it isn't to change the double affection, but to change the multiplier that has been added into the transformation. I'm not gonna explain or prove this, but thanks to some previous work of Iceyy I've been able to write a near exact formula to deal with it. The issue with this is that when you leave the multiplier to high it won't change anything for the OP Templars and if you leave it to low the people without the OP items aren't able to play the class anymore. There is a way around it and if GMs would be interested in it feel free to sent a message.

So now let's say the Templar class got fixed which changes will this bring towards the game. First of all the biggest damage dealers disappear. This means that the PvP is gonna last longer and it will be more difficult to kill anyone. This gives the classes with a healing skill more time to cast it and survive. The problem will appear if the healing will become greater then the amount of damage dealt in the same period of time. And trust me on the fact that if the Templars damage is cut into 3~5 this will be noticeable. How to overcome this problem would be to reduce the amount of Health players have. This is impossible, because if you go and figure out how the health of your character is build up you'll see that it's only from all additional of Items and not from the basic you have. So the only removable items would be all boosting scrolls (which has been tried for a very short period, but they re-added them because of all the asking for them.) the other way is to reduce the stats on the items. But this is unrealizable, once you start to change items or stats upon items you need to offer players to look upon something different or you'll lose your entire player base. So I won't consider this as a valid option.
Now let's say there is a correct way to reduce players health, then what will happen. The lower the amount of health the more burst are going to be effected. So when this will be the case it will result in a change in Dekans Skill as well. I know Skill Defense Armor & Marea's Battle are a huge downside for them already, but you can't ask everyone to play a priest with Skill Defense Armor just to survive against a Dekan. Then the issue comes from Guardians with Knight Symbol (this I consider less problematic as everything else since it requires a build up from Order Swing + Crazy Standing (makes you unable to move) + a lot of buffs (without any protection from debuff). Furthermore you'll have a problem with the Rear Blast from a Noir. The exact boost in this is yet unclear to me as I haven't tested this properly, but yet the damage is unaffected by any for of Damage Drop / Skill Defense. The same applies to the poison from a dhan.

Right so let's continue on our journey what happens next. The heals now will becomes overrated. So you would have to reduce all the healing skills in strength for every character. And not to mention you'll have to remove all the Teardrops and maybe even all the Legendary Health Potions.

After this comes the next problem, how you wanna stand against bosses when all damage is reduce. Boss in the world just gonna take more time so that's not so much of a problem. But how are you gonna be able to do Superior Dungeon stage 10-15. Many of you might not even been after stage 6 or if so just think back how much u used to pass there. And if you wonder why this is important you have to realize that this is the intended power level YNK this we had when it was first released. Nowadays with better items and all additional stuff I doubt anyone can say they're able to do it without any item from the Item Mall (This includes level 7 skills).

Alright so besides the reduction of a part of the Templar damage at the OP level I won't vote to reduce the damage to enhance the game play since it's just impossible due to all additions over the years. So let's see about enhancing the damage of other classes. Who will need a enhancement and how or why. Let's just take one example and leave the rest for later. I'll take out the Giants. They are probably one of the most underrated classes there are in game at this point. And the current solution wasn't the increase them, but they simply just gave the Savage a skill to play like a different class (mostly used the Templar). This doesn't solve the solution for the class itself, but it causes a huge issue when you wanna increase them. Now to fix them you would first have to add restrictions on which skills they are able to take away, yet leave the skill still be able to remove the buff as a debuff effect (this enhances the ability of a Savage very much in both group / 1 vs 1). Now after dealing with some issue's let's make a separation into group PvP and single.
For single target PvP I don't think the Savage needs much addition, because their ability to they to take opponents skills with a very short cooldown gives them a good chance victory.

[sh1n1gami]

Also even when you get debuffed you have to consider which class is able to do this and what it will change. And with a diverse game with many different game plays I don't see it as an issue if you'd have a weakness against another class and a advantage against the next.
For group PvP it's a different story, especially with the addition of aoe debuffs and all kinds of weaknesses you can't play a class they relay's on having as many buffs as possible. You'll get overwhelmed in damage or unable to find the needed buffs so besides being able to be a disturbance you won't be able to do much. To chance this you'd have to relay more on static or self buffs. This for a savage is a major issue. They relay on strength for their own damage. Now I'll not go into all the disadvantages of that, but even changing their own self buff from 15% strength to 500% strength won't make them a factor, this is all due to the way strength is affected by a various amount of factors.
The solution has to be found in Melee Attack, this is more direct to the point and will have a bigger influence in the damage. The downside is that if you leave them the ability to take Blunt Mastery you just create a Templar on steroids and that's not the way we want to go. Furthermore you have to issue of how much and how to add it. GMs in the past came up with a suggestion of Class Specific Talisman to be added at level 50. This would mean you not only need to consider the damage of the classes at end game, but also along the way from level 50 towards end game. This in itself becomes so complicated I won't be trying to find a correct solution. Every addition doesn't need to be done in the form of a single talisman, but in a growth element. Then we getting to the amount, right now they have a more powerful upgrade weapon then most other classes, yet still this effect isn't enough to bring them back to life. So the change needs to be in the form of something huge. Personally I would even consider an amount as +10,000 Melee Attack. Of course the exact amount requires some testing, but I doubt any player minds to see the event server online more often. Even just for the purpose to test different builds or playing around. (this is largely due to the fact that everyone get's equal gear, so it all comes down to skill instead of anything else.)
The issue of testing will of course be depending on which type of items you take into consideration so I would kinda suggest the GMs not only to take into consideration everything +18 which only 2 maybe 3 players in game have, but also just every item +12 or even only +6. (As previously mentioned this will have a huge influence on the game play of various classes)

So now to come back to the topic about the Damage Drop. I don't think the Damage Drop is the biggest issue in game at the moment, but that's my opinion.
The whole reason of this topic is the fact that a few people have items that have such a huge influence that it makes a "fair" fight unable. So it's better to find a solution for the few items which create this effect instead of trying to deal with something that effects the whole game itself.
My suggestion isn't to remove the items, because this will basically be unfair for those who had to spend time / effort in obtaining them (this only applies to legit items of course).
Also a cap on the amount of DD is unfair, since to be in agreement with the upgrade weapons you need to set the cap higher then 86% due to the axe alone already and with the previous cap they also effected every other additional like pet / dual wield / skills. So I would hate to see the same thing come back again.
And honestly even a 100% DD Dual wield Human isn't a problem to be killed as is show in many video's or imaginable by Dekans or Poison damage.
Now I'll have to admit that it can't be left untouched since the new upgrades made the difference of a few % of Damage Drop already crazy. So I'd suggest to get it affected in a different way. Right now they first count the total amount of Damage Drop before applying, why can't they change it that every piece of Damage Drop is added separately (this would also get rite of 100% Humans).
Let's give an example of this:
Right now a Human with a 80% DD axe and a 70% DD dagger will have a total amount of DD which is equal to 80 + 0,3 * 70 = 101 % DD
When you would let then be affected separately it would give you a total amount of DD which is equal to 80 + (100-80) * 0,7 = 80 + 14 = 94% DD

[sh1n1gami]

This can be done the same for a templar:
Let's assume the maximum a 74% DD mace + 5 times a 10% DD armor piece
Right now this would give make a DD of 74 + 5 * 10 = 124% DD
When you let them affect separately this would give a total amount of 74% DD from the weapon, then add the armor pieces one by one this will result in a total DD of 84%.
Now the Templar will receive an additional 10% DD from the 5 armor parts instead of 50%, this will still give him a certain advantage over the rest but it suddenly doesn't make it completely unfair anymore. Of course there is another way to say that armor and weapon is counted separately which would result in 74 + (100-74) * 0,5 = 87% DD

Yet I prefer to see any of the above presented methods instead of a DD cap or even worse the remove of the DD armor.
Of course I'm open for any other suggestions, but no crying without any arguments!
@crussandra
It's nice to see video's of you PvPing, but please you should be more careful with the comments you make. I know you probably just write them to troll on people, because you must know yourself they ain't true. Furthermore without more information about the actual gear there is no way to check weather it's true what you write or not. Because just saying if you think you can beat Cherish with 3k damage you haven't been up against him yet.
try that as last post

[crussandra]

This can be done the same for a templar:

@crussandra
It's nice to see video's of you PvPing, but please you should be more careful with the comments you make. I know you probably just write them to troll on people, because you must know yourself they ain't true. Furthermore without more information about the actual gear there is no way to check weather it's true what you write or not. Because just saying if you think you can beat Cherish with 3k damage you haven't been up against him yet.
try that as last post

its up to you if you dont believe and if that happens if I pvp CHerish as you wanted well. . to tell you straight if I wear my 3 dd parts I only have to do is to stand in front of cherish letting him to hit my temp hard and letting hit my character without a full buffs and ill give him just 50K hp setting of my temp im sure he never reach more than 3 digit damage or even cant make my hp to HALF, even he fully buffed his Temp I promise that but because Im not a kind of those Troller feelers who to tell anyone that im the strongest templar I always wear my 2 dd parts for a while since im just started to collecting accessories, talismans and stuffs to complete it before I going in serious PVP in that case maybe even Chrish will QQ and saying "Its Unfair" got it? so even I myself avoiding that to happend that someone who have their OP templar wants to pvp me or he/she will hanged their necks when they noticed that they dealing only 3 digit damage on me, its obvious how much they QQ about my character even my temp only wears just 2 DD parts, what more if I wear 3 of my dd parts? and everytime I OL my char and handicap encountered them take note that my character was migrated without any advanced accessories like +12-18 feathers, abs set and Talismans which players most have their complete acces to create damage, what more if I completed those accessories and talismans and abs set plus using our PH champion maces (with futile and with x8 attackspeed) which deals 3 times the damage of +18 opaniel's mace with 50% stones in it with matching 6 times attack speed of that upgrade mace in rbf just imagine that if Im going to serious my temp in this IRohan server but im not just to troll other people that's why 3 of us decided to freeze our chracters and stop playing RBF because if we continue to spending dollars to complete our character items, there will be one day that our characters will be banned without any reason coz of crybabies keeps on HOWLING to GM's and since most of foreign people here are DD cry babies or OP temp crylords or I should say "DD and Templar-nophobia" people in this server im just stating my side about those people keeping QQ about our DD items or accusing us as hackers/dupers instead of using their BRAIN Tactic, thats it.

[sunnyangel]

Don't you have ulterior motives yourself now? Don't you cry because you can't kill human with your templar? Tell me yourself why DD should be nerfed? So that anyone can kill humans again? so that PPL who purchased axes can again suck on it? Humans have not that great skills which would help them in pvp much, im Telling you if you cant kill a person under rush, it will get ugly. Your point is that human race should just be little retards who run around like headless chicken with only few objectives: gotta get debuffed, gotta get killed, gotta use as much pots as possible ... Stun smb .... what now .... errrr.... emergency exit. Because this is what they will be, if it is a 100DD we at least can stand our ground and try to do smth, because temp won't have an uber upper hand over human no more. Give Humans a chance for a fight!

I dont own a templar so get your facts straight.

and wtf is this stand our ground nonsense? standing your ground implies that you are doing something not standing still watching the 0s go by.

[Samtony]

its up to you if you dont believe and if that happens if I pvp CHerish as you wanted well. . to tell you straight if I wear my 3 dd parts I only have to do is to stand in front of cherish letting him to hit my temp hard and letting hit my character without a full buffs and ill give him just 50K hp setting of my temp im sure he never reach more than 3 digit damage or even cant make my hp to HALF, even he fully buffed his Temp I promise that but because Im not a kind of those Troller feelers who to tell anyone that im the strongest templar I always wear my 2 dd parts for a while since im just started to collecting accessories, talismans and stuffs to complete it before I going in serious PVP in that case maybe even Chrish will QQ and saying "Its Unfair" got it? so even I myself avoiding that to happend that someone who have their OP templar wants to pvp me or he/she will hanged their necks when they noticed that they dealing only 3 digit damage on me, its obvious how much they QQ about my character even my temp only wears just 2 DD parts, what more if I wear 3 of my dd parts? and everytime I OL my char and handicap encountered them take note that my character was migrated without any advanced accessories like +12-18 feathers, abs set and Talismans which players most have their complete acces to create damage, what more if I completed those accessories and talismans and abs set plus using our PH champion maces (with futile and with x8 attackspeed) which deals 3 times the damage of +18 opaniel's mace with 50% stones in it with matching 6 times attack speed of that upgrade mace in rbf just imagine that if Im going to serious my temp in this IRohan server but im not just to troll other people that's why 3 of us decided to freeze our chracters and stop playing RBF because if we continue to spending dollars to complete our character items, there will be one day that our characters will be banned without any reason coz of crybabies keeps on HOWLING to GM's and since most of foreign people here are DD cry babies or OP temp crylords or I should say "DD and Templar-nophobia" people in this server im just stating my side about those people keeping QQ about our DD items or accusing us as hackers/dupers instead of using their BRAIN Tactic, thats it.

Didn't read your whole essay but Cherish hits pretty good while missing 2 parts of onyx (wearing 2 parts of dd armor).

[GodsRage]

I dont own a templar so get your facts straight.

and wtf is this stand our ground nonsense? standing your ground implies that you are doing something not standing still watching the 0s go by.

Damn straight i'm stubborn as hell. Personally i saw allowing human classes to have 100% DD as a saving grace for this game. The only thing that made it worth my while to actually come back here for a short while.

All the temp players are crying ikn their beer that humans are now unkillable. All the dhan players are laughing at those temp players. And if you have less than 150k hp (either out of the box or from some other effective class class hitting you), a dekan can 2-hit you. So what if the ruling class of irohan can't kill humans? Most playing temps were smart enough to get themselves a dhan and a dekan to handle them. Again, I don't see how 100% DD dual wield humans are destroying the game. The only thing their destroying is the stranglehold Templars have had on irohan for the past 5 years.

[tintin13]

PLAY ISEN balance server , no OP Damages , every class is an advantage