Yeah sub optimal they do more damage and tank less thats a fair exchange. Also while having an upgrade makes you strong with the high reinforcement rate and the other sources of stat inflation (war song titles, conqueror lvls, 500 vit costume etc.) you can tank a lot even if you use a tali club or dual glacials. I got 2 guards in my guild dual glacial both have 85k hp and in the 60-70% dd range how can you tell me thats not good enough.