Halk elf peircing root??

Anyone know if it's really based on INT or is that a type o?

Duration seems to scale at level 5 properly. The damage... I don't know. Seems like a waste to try for damage, though.

200 int archer should be capable of infinite rooting someone, though. I knoe fot sure long-term I will gear into this type of build.

Ty .... That seems like it can be achieved fairly easily with the right gear

They gotta fix wing foot from rangers, its the most 20 seconds of bull**** everytime I use it.

There's a lot of skills they nerfed that way from the latest stuff they did in RBF.

Int shield is only good for about 10 sec max as well.

Having permanent winged foot gave rangers too big of a mobility advantage when kiting in pvp.

I wish they had reworked it to some kind of 'when not in combat' but that's probably too hard for them to figure out considering random mob attacks.
I'd love to use it for transportation since I find mounts irritating because of the 'cast' time and getting stuck in a pile of mobs when they crit me

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Originally Posted by PenguinJoe

There's a lot of skills they nerfed that way from the latest stuff they did in RBF.

Int shield is only good for about 10 sec max as well.

Having permanent winged foot gave rangers too big of a mobility advantage when kiting in pvp.

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This is simply not true, it's been balanced on other servers for a long time. Multiple classes have gap closing stuns or long range skills/roots/slows which can counter rangers. Beside that they don't have any way in resisting CC. They should have just changed the damage accordingly and let WF remain the same but with a % speed nerf (lvl 7 gives 80% mobility).

Atm ranger is like avenger, except for the fact they don't have as much damage, nor can they stack damage (AS and such are missing) and their attackspeed is too low and they don't have any cc resist(shadow). They are basically sitting ducks with some burst dmg.

Everything a ranger can, a scout can too, but better. They could as well just delete ranger class I guess.

At the moment, I do not see any reason to pick a ranger above a Scout. Be it pvE (obviously), or pvP.
They bring nothing to the table, since scouts can make use of the base attack values the ranger has (xbow), and have better party skills.

Death chaser alone already is more than enough to have the scale incline towards the Scout class.

I agree with both you guys. But ranger still is better for 1v1 since scouts are heavily aoe and bow-oriented. Crossbows are slower but do one hella lot more damage with the ranger's xbow skills. That said, i am levelling my source mostly with an xbow at least until I can get my 100% scattershot online. Then the xbows go to KissMyCrit which will be my ranger project once the scout is done.

I think WF could be left as it was or nerfed and made permanent; even the 10% bonus baseline movespeed the HE used to have over the other classes is no longer in the game. The ranger has very limited scope in GvG, especially since its Alacrity is worse than the Scout's, which is also party-wide on what's already a very damage-utility-heavy pick for Death Chaser, and the Archer alone can bring permanent single-target CC-locking. Though this doesn't help against Rush and Death Call and the likes since skill ranges are not modified by Long Shot and have the same distance as these gap-closing CC skills. At the very least, I'd like to see WF be given no cast time/animations in its current state like it used to. It'd allow it to at least be used as a proper disengage.

That said, I suspect the ranger's endgame damage will be the best in the game, per this post I made earlier about weapons for the scout and implications for the crossbow and the ranger:

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Originally Posted by soulholder

If you play AA-based with scatter shot, the bow will scale better. The crossbow is better for those utilizing skill rotations and proper AA resets via interrupting crossbow animations and casting. If you're unfamiliar with the crossbow and use AA's a lot, your kill speed will drop significantly versus that of a good bow in the later levels; weapons early on provide a lot of static offensive pressure through base weapon damage, and the scout doesn't shine until gaining access to most of their skills at ranks 5+ in the mid-80's and early 90's. The pre-70 levels certainly favor crossbows, especially since bow mastery won't be maxed to even come close to reaching the difference in what's almost double the base weapon damage on the crossbow.

Kiting with a crossbow is easier because it has a substantially longer attack range, to which Long Shot also scales further ahead of the bow. However, if comparing a good crossbow to a good bow, since the range is only applied to AA's, the bow performs similarly in a purely kiting setting in respects to killing a target as it approaches. Though the crossbow build will be slightly more mobile given the periods of AA downtime into a full-run between its animations.

At the higher levels where Scatter shot and so on have a higher level of precedence, I suspect a crit-based bow will out-damage a crossbow in all fronts in PvE. My initial thought on the scout, which seems to be holding pretty true, is that a crossbow should be used mostly in PvP-based builds - skipping bow mastery entirely - while a bow should be used in PvE for the AA and AoE speed on Scatter Shot. I suspect PvP endgame crossbows (The legendary ones) should move to RA/Weapon Attack over crit chance due to an enhanced Legendary crossbow based on current trends having close to if not more than 2000 base weapon damage, while the bow will cap in the 1300ish area. Expecting a 4-5% amount of RA/WA per part on the 16 parts needed to make the weapon, this would imply 64-70% Ranged attack and similar stats on Weapon Attack, boosting effective white WA/pure RA from the crossbow stats alone to well into the 3000's which then gets re-scaled by the % RA since WA will contribute to Ranged attack appropriately - now pushing over 4000 RA from a weapon alone. Doing so will effectively multiply base damage by a factor of three if my numbers are correct in how weapon damage scales on defense, and will likely double PvP damage at near-endgame stats - substantially more than the gains from critical hits suggest as dex plateaus into the ~1.5k-2k mark, as crits will be only boosted by this static amount, and not every attack will be guaranteed to crit. I suspect that even the Ranger's Critical Shot, which also has a built-in extra dex:crit scaling on the attack, will still deal less damage in a crit-oriented build than one which runs WA utilizing a crossbow (which also takes advantage of gains from Mastery - Woohoo ~5000 RA from weapons alone!)

That being said, the bow still has plenty of purpose in PvP and is an option in particular for playing crits; the stagger effect on-crit can delay enemies, and the gains from speed wind at the estimated 40% crit chance with the legendary bow specced for crit will potentially allow scouts to shoot with relative safety with the constant staggering on top of more Frozen procs and permanent CC locking given 200 int.

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The reasoning being that 2k dex with such crazy RA numbers will only provide 3400 total RA from stats as opposed to the 5k+ from the crossbow. Modified by another 30% from SW this gets huge. Then add Death Chaser and hardcore scaling from Murder Shot and Critical Shot (better than the scout's), as well as Siege Shot applying to skill damage now, I expect nobody's burst to come close except for the Scout's with AiO with a crossbow. Even then, I think this value will fall off later on.

The only issue is defense in GvG. The ranger's utility is *only* good in strict 1v1 settings (CC locking, Silence, Toxic Pot), while the scout brings some GvG purpose via spreading Death Chaser/hard-hitting AoE's, and party dex. Dhans and the likes still have a lot to gain from stealth, higher innate defensive stats, and higher defensive stats from either strength for pdef or agility for evasion against strength builds. The class may be best off just playing full vit from how squishy and defenseless it is.

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Originally Posted by soulholder

I think WF could be left as it was or nerfed and made permanent; even the 10% bonus baseline movespeed the HE used to have over the other classes is no longer in the game. The ranger has very limited scope in GvG, especially since its Alacrity is worse than the Scout's, which is also party-wide on what's already a very damage-utility-heavy pick for Death Chaser, and the Archer alone can bring permanent single-target CC-locking. Though this doesn't help against Rush and Death Call and the likes since skill ranges are not modified by Long Shot and have the same distance as these gap-closing CC skills. At the very least, I'd like to see WF be given no cast time/animations in its current state like it used to. It'd allow it to at least be used as a proper disengage.

That said, I suspect the ranger's endgame damage will be the best in the game, per this post I made earlier about weapons for the scout and implications for the crossbow and the ranger:



The reasoning being that 2k dex with such crazy RA numbers will only provide 3400 total RA from stats as opposed to the 5k+ from the crossbow. Modified by another 30% from SW this gets huge. Then add Death Chaser and hardcore scaling from Murder Shot and Critical Shot (better than the scout's), as well as Siege Shot applying to skill damage now, I expect nobody's burst to come close except for the Scout's with AiO with a crossbow. Even then, I think this value will fall off later on.

The only issue is defense in GvG. The ranger's utility is *only* good in strict 1v1 settings (CC locking, Silence, Toxic Pot), while the scout brings some GvG purpose via spreading Death Chaser/hard-hitting AoE's, and party dex. Dhans and the likes still have a lot to gain from stealth, higher innate defensive stats, and higher defensive stats from either strength for pdef or agility for evasion against strength builds. The class may be best off just playing full vit from how squishy and defenseless it is.

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Agi avenger, Str guardian and crit based savages can probably put out more burst than rangers at endgame lvl. They all have a 10 second accumulation skill which scales with their own skills damage. Just at Avenger you can use duplication, which when critical will do a normal dmg crit +200% dmg crit (this is equal to 4 critical attacks at once) if you charge SA for 9 seconds whilst using shadow and then use duplication + dpp I'm pretty sure you'll outdamage a ranger(also deadly blow 175% agi to crit vs. 100% dex to crit + 40% critical dmg boost from mortal rising vs. 10% boost for rangers). Same goes for savages which have their stats scaling at 300% to critical attacks (200% str 100% dex) + they can snatch an extra buff for critrate or crit damage. I don't need to elaborate guards.

Beside that, both guards and dhans can resist cc, dhans can use fake death to evade combos, Giants are tanky, have traps, can neglect crit damage completely. and then there is ranger, it has a skill to release from stuns (not paralyzes tho so you're still fked).

Everything I said is based on 1 vs 1 situations. If you look at GvG pvp or group pvp which will pretty much only be the case since you don't have MR....well then it looks even worse for ranger. Since there will be many scouts, you can count on people having death chaser on their ass the entire time, meaning the death chaser advantage from ranger can be neglected. Now imagine a dhan/guard/savage doing their burst combo on something that has death chaser applied on them. Ranger damage won't come even close to that, ranger won't do any damage coz they'll be dead lmao.

I played ranger as a main at Jainus with maxed out mobility with death chaser scaling up to 250% dmg increase and even then, it takes a lot of skill and good positioning to not be instantly killed.

Don't get me wrong; I think dagger crit giant will be the best PvP build in the game from snatch and its raw damage scaling. I've been saying that ;)

The thing is, realistically, do you see yourself actually dealing damage uncontested for ten continuous seconds on an avenger? When I last played R:BF, Order Swing provided 7% per hit for 40s, and KS which ignored even more defense and had higher scaling with 4 melee attack per 1 str instead of 0.6 : 1 (an 85% reduction in damage innately and 40% less per stat than dex : RA) which even got better scaling on a higher-speed CS on higher base attack speed than guardian has now due to the lack of attack speed reduction on dual wield, with strictly worse crit scaling, was still only barely able to really come close to inflicting a OHKO at the full end of its duration. That's WAY more damage than 10% at 10s can inflict At a crap example of 1 attack per second, you're looking at 1.07^40 (14.697) vs 1.1^10 (2.59), and the guard in R:BF had way better ways to keep its damage going from better/more CC and Stone Skin which is no longer available for them, and an extended Protection of Roha to cover the full duration So even if we assume the guard gets denied of hits for 30s of the 40 from debuffing roha and getting CC-locked, it's still doing much better than it would now. I agree that avenger will be a potent endgame build, but understand that the nature of katars suggests that the damage per hit will be substantially less than you think, especially starting out, given the fairly mediocre nature of katar weapon damage and lack of attack speed modifier to scale the AA's.

I just don't think people are realizing how important weapon damage is; in those other servers, people had like 30k+ attack. We're looking at a perfect build here on a maxed-out ranger with objectively some of the highest attack force numbers possible probably having something like 9k. Until stats started getting very inflated in R:BF, str dhan was either played predator for Ruin trap or basically a PvE build.

In the 1v1 you neglect to consider the ranged silence and toxic potion and literally permanent CC locking it can do from range, 50% of which literally cannot be removed or negated as it's mobility stat denial. The ranger also has no real combo anymore which makes it much harder to negate its damage, and has (ranged) buff removal, so getting into something like a siege/speed combo and countering that really isn't a concern. Cooldowns for offensive abilities are much shorter than defensive ones like damage negation and so on. The Guard, avenger, and giant can't engage if they're silenced, nor can they rebuff. None of them can get any damage in while they are. None can heal or fake death or negate damage at that point, either. Strip Shot, if it acts like it did in R:BF will ignore all damage negation bonuses including immunity effects, as well.

Murder Shot is also the rough equivalent to DPP and a little extra. While it may not crit, that's the point of the weapon damage bonus; it's so substantial it may still outdamage a critical MS/crit on DPP. Even the 100% dex:crit damage from Fatal which stacks into attack-force-related hits will likely have less damage throughput than weapon damage. And it's also why I don't think there's so much value in a crit build for the crossbow (Vital Point is also a waste of skill points - 10% crit damage level 7 is horrible); other classes will likely deal similar damage on their crit builds. They won't be able to pump such insane raw numbers from 70% WA, though.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the ranger in GvG will not have value and will thus instantly die in most cases due to its lack of any form of defense aside from its single-target CC. I do suspect that it will be a top-notch duelist and math-wise at the moment have the best burst in the game, while having value for the 1v1 just from its capacity to keep a target literally permanently locked down with only 4s intervals every 10s where a cleanse effect could actually do anything whatsoever, to which WF will share a cooldown with their release and they can just be kited out. Ranger has historically been skill-intensive, and it definitely got a lot harder, but I think in the right hands it will provide noteworthy numbers.

It could be that the state of the game is too volatile to make these predictions now, but I don't see much changing in the foreseeable future, honestly.

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Originally Posted by soulholder

Don't get me wrong; I think dagger crit giant will be the best PvP build in the game from snatch and its raw damage scaling. I've been saying that ;)

The thing is, realistically, do you see yourself actually dealing damage uncontested for ten continuous seconds on an avenger? When I last played R:BF, Order Swing provided 7% per hit for 40s, and KS which ignored even more defense and had higher scaling with 4 melee attack per 1 str instead of 0.6 : 1 (an 85% reduction in damage innately and 40% less per stat than dex : RA) which even got better scaling on a higher-speed CS on higher base attack speed than guardian has now due to the lack of attack speed reduction on dual wield, with strictly worse crit scaling, was still only barely able to really come close to inflicting a OHKO at the full end of its duration. That's WAY more damage than 10% at 10s can inflict At a crap example of 1 attack per second, you're looking at 1.07^40 (14.697) vs 1.1^10 (2.59), and the guard in R:BF had way better ways to keep its damage going from better/more CC and Stone Skin which is no longer available for them, and an extended Protection of Roha to cover the full duration So even if we assume the guard gets denied of hits for 30s of the 40 from debuffing roha and getting CC-locked, it's still doing much better than it would now. I agree that avenger will be a potent endgame build, but understand that the nature of katars suggests that the damage per hit will be substantially less than you think, especially starting out, given the fairly mediocre nature of katar weapon damage and lack of attack speed modifier to scale the AA's.

I just don't think people are realizing how important weapon damage is; in those other servers, people had like 30k+ attack. We're looking at a perfect build here on a maxed-out ranger with objectively some of the highest attack force numbers possible probably having something like 9k. Until stats started getting very inflated in R:BF, str dhan was either played predator for Ruin trap or basically a PvE build.

In the 1v1 you neglect to consider the ranged silence and toxic potion and literally permanent CC locking it can do from range, 50% of which literally cannot be removed or negated as it's mobility stat denial. The ranger also has no real combo anymore which makes it much harder to negate its damage, and has (ranged) buff removal, so getting into something like a siege/speed combo and countering that really isn't a concern. Cooldowns for offensive abilities are much shorter than defensive ones like damage negation and so on. The Guard, avenger, and giant can't engage if they're silenced, nor can they rebuff. None of them can get any damage in while they are. None can heal or fake death or negate damage at that point, either. Strip Shot, if it acts like it did in R:BF will ignore all damage negation bonuses including immunity effects, as well.

Murder Shot is also the rough equivalent to DPP and a little extra. While it may not crit, that's the point of the weapon damage bonus; it's so substantial it may still outdamage a critical MS/crit on DPP. Even the 100% dex:crit damage from Fatal which stacks into attack-force-related hits will likely have less damage throughput than weapon damage. And it's also why I don't think there's so much value in a crit build for the crossbow (Vital Point is also a waste of skill points - 10% crit damage level 7 is horrible); other classes will likely deal similar damage on their crit builds. They won't be able to pump such insane raw numbers from 70% WA, though.

Don't get me wrong, I still think the ranger in GvG will not have value and will thus instantly die in most cases due to its lack of any form of defense aside from its single-target CC. I do suspect that it will be a top-notch duelist and math-wise at the moment have the best burst in the game, while having value for the 1v1 just from its capacity to keep a target literally permanently locked down with only 4s intervals every 10s where a cleanse effect could actually do anything whatsoever, to which WF will share a cooldown with their release and they can just be kited out. Ranger has historically been skill-intensive, and it definitely got a lot harder, but I think in the right hands it will provide noteworthy numbers.

It could be that the state of the game is too volatile to make these predictions now, but I don't see much changing in the foreseeable future, honestly.

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You do make sense, I looked at the ranger skills again and pure judging from a 1 vs. 1 situation they can probably deal tonns of damage (anti pot is really OP). Guards might not put out as much damage as rangers althrough I still think their combo will deal tonns of damage in group pvp but that's not a 1 vs.1 (aoe scales with OS). For dhans the weapon damage on katars doesnt matter and the attackspeed is pretty fast (700 base) if you add some attackspeed option stones etc. you'll accumulate a bloody load of damage that stacks with dpp + duplication.

Ranger would be the ideal rpk character together with avengers, in group pvp I do however think they'll be really hard to play and require a lot of skills and game knowledge to position yourself.

PS: Weapon attack is really OP, since the scaling of stats is kinda sh1t.

Likely, I'm just not 100% certain where PvP defenses will be at endgame for the most part to perfectly judge where the Avenger sits in regards to killing people. Of course Mana Burn +MX is a 100% chance now, so there's certainly that which will absolutely destroy tanks. There are also a lot of effects which boost and reduce PvP damage directly which given katars' lower numbers may make things either very easy to kill or very hard to kill. Numbers might be all over.

WA's strong here, for sure - but mostly just at the Legendary weapon tier. Not as good as % attack force, but I think of all of the newly-available high-scaling stats, it has the most promise to make some builds very, very potent. Crits will definitely have their place, especially for high attack speed builds which can benefit from PvP from the stagger effect they inflict. I'm just not certain it'll optimize the rangers' damage or be specifically the HE's best PvP option so long as attack force scaling from stats remains so low.

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Originally Posted by soulholder

Likely, I'm just not 100% certain where PvP defenses will be at endgame for the most part to perfectly judge where the Avenger sits in regards to killing people. Of course Mana Burn +MX is a 100% chance now, so there's certainly that which will absolutely destroy tanks. There are also a lot of effects which boost and reduce PvP damage directly which given katars' lower numbers may make things either very easy to kill or very hard to kill. Numbers might be all over.

WA's strong here, for sure - but mostly just at the Legendary weapon tier. Not as good as % attack force, but I think of all of the newly-available high-scaling stats, it has the most promise to make some builds very, very potent. Crits will definitely have their place, especially for high attack speed builds which can benefit from PvP from the stagger effect they inflict. I'm just not certain it'll optimize the rangers' damage or be specifically the HE's best PvP option so long as attack force scaling from stats remains so low.

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% crit chance + % critical damage boost is what I use on a weapon.

You've got to keep in mind which items give which stats. In this case crit chance and crit % dmg can only be gotten from weapons, whereas ranged attack can simply be gotten from rings. so to maximise damage I use crit dmg + crit chance wep and RA rings.