Agi Dhan - Why is it the only class that got left behind?

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04-12-2015 02:03 PM
White Arctic Fox

Agi Dhan - Why is it the only class that got left behind?

For the haters:
I know writing this is probably useless and nothing will change but I can't help to wonder why its organised like this..... Agi dhan was my first class when I came to Rohan many years ago and I still love them

For starters there are no Psy/Agi Onyx armour sets but except for that, agi dhans buffs are even worse....I just wonder why they never got improved?

Dex buffs:
Nimble 30%
Alacrity Blow: 25%
Quickness: 40%
Almighty: 25%
Almighty scroll: 30%
(Invoke 25% for dex guard)

So any class can boost dex by: 150% (175% for dex guard)

Str buffs:
Rising might 30%
Crazy strength: 35%
Almighty 25%
Almighty scroll: 30%
(Deadly Blow 20% internal buff str dhan)
(40% internal buff Noir (if im correct))

So any class can boost str by: 120% (140% for str dhans) (160% Noir)

Int buffs:
Not going to summ this up, most intel classes use temp buffs + internal buffs that will increase their magic attack greatly (like int dekans) + most played intel class is temp from which we all know its OP...

I do want to add warlock hasn't got the greatest damage(because the lack of buffs) but then again they can snatch buffs and get alof of melee or magic attack (depending on their build) depending on what they snatch.

Psy buffs:(updated with the new class)
Almighty 25%
Blessed Crown 40% (party buff Rumir)
GMB 25% (party buff priest)
Almighty Scroll 30%
Templar psy buff: 25%

So any class can boost psy by(you have to party a priest + rumir tho): 135%

Vit Buffs:
Almighty: 25%
Mareas Grace: 25% (Party buff priest)
Almighty Scroll: 30%
Sequoias Favor: 40%
(Eternal Vit Defender 50%)

So any class can boost vit by (you have to party a priest tho): 120%(170% for defenders)

Agi buffs:
Avoid: 21%
Almighty 25%
Almighty Scroll: 30%

So any class can boost agi by : 76% (which is mainly because of the all stats buffs)

Why is it only 76% versus all other stats who can be buffed 120% or more.

The advantage DEX, STR, INT have as well is that they give RA,ME,MA too which can be boosted in % by internal buffs or external buffs which are given to the player. Which increases your damage output...

Now I know that Accuracy(from dex) and Evasion(from agi) ONCE were balanced so agi dhans with good agi couldn't be hit much but that is a LONG time ago, since like forever this balance is messed up and once you have like 300-400 accuracy (thats like 300 dex) youll not miss your opponent alot even if their agi is high as F*. so Evasion is utterly useless and it doesnt increase agi dhans critical damage either.

I'd simply suggest to make Avoid better:

lvl 1 5% agi
lvl 2 10% agi
lvl 3 15% agi
lvl 4 20% agi
lvl 5 25% agi
lvl 6 30% agi
lvl 7 40% agi

Archers have a buff for evasion....this is useless, if its changed to Agi too and made like this:

lvl 1 2% agi
lvl 2 4% agi
lvl 3 8% agi
lvl 4 10% agi
lvl 5 15% agi
lvl 6 20% agi
lvl 7 30% agi

This results in a total buffrate of 125%, this would be balanced even tho there still arent Onyx armour with agi on them....
04-12-2015 03:23 PM
bloodybladez3

It's left behind because it's not needed. Let's look back in the days of 2008-09. Let's say you have a Dex Guardian and an Agi Dhan with this gear:
4x 51s= 204
Ears and Eyes= + 76
R5 Talisman = +15
Gold Trophy = +40
Costume and Hat = +30
5x Ancient Weapon = +170 Dex/Agi
+30 base dex/agi
+ 548 stat points =
1113 Base Agi/Dex
With Level 7 Alm, Old Nimble, Alacrity, Quickness, Invoke, 20% Alm Scroll, and Arcane, the Dex Guard has a 166% boost, giving him 2960 Dex. Level 7 Invoke is 5.30x your Dex. The Dex Guard will deal 15.6k + ... let's say 4k with Darkness. In PvP on no DD, this is 5290+ 1300.

With Level 7 Alm, Level 7 Avoid, 20% Alm Scroll, and Arcane, the Dhan gets a 76% boost, giving him 1958 Agi. DB is 530% of your Agility. 5.3 x 1958 is 10300. Mortal Rising gives a 35-40% boost. If it's 35%, the critical damage is boosted to 14015, + 7k with Invenom. In pvp on no DD this is 4600+ 2300

In this case, the Dex Guard does 6.5k total.
The Dhan is dealing 6.6k Total. The Agi Dhan crits HARDER. There's one thing we left out though. The Critical Blow Scroll. Agi Dhans don't get a boost from this, but Dex Guardians do. This makes the Dex Guardians' crits just a little bit stronger than the Dhan's crits. But at what cost?:

The Dex Guardian is relying on 3 extra buffs, which can be debuffed, to reach its potential. The Dhan only needs Almighty. .........................

................It doesn't matter in the end, though. Why? Because of Pure Attack. Back in the early days, it was worth it to use an Agi Dhan or a Dex Guardian. A Fully buffed Str Dhan wasn't always able to 1-shot everything. It was possible for an Agi Dhan to kill a Str Guardian or Defender more efficiently than a Str Dhan could. When it came to killing Vit Dekans, Agi Dhans were often better. These days it doesn't matter. Pdef and Mdef barely matters anymore. When you compare today to 2008, these times it's like you took off everybody's armor, then cast Shout on them.
04-12-2015 03:43 PM
sunnyangel

You obv never played an agi dhan with the current gear because they are OP when the cards line up. Obv agi dhans suffer from 2 problems 1 being invenom bug (interaction with SD making it so you cant crit) and the 2nd being crit class requires high crit loses DD.

Many people are saying agi dhans have been left behind and its mainly because the new gear favors attack force classes over crit boosts. However agi dhans are still fine when you can crit WITH invenom.
04-12-2015 03:44 PM
RBNXD

You guys forgot Invenom. Cant be resisted with normal armor only with SD armor and the difference between Crit rate and Elemental damage weapons. You forgot Eternal Vitality from Defenders that's 50% more vit.

I do think working some how in a balance where accuracy and evasion do matter in pvp. DEX is over powered as hell and AGI is just ignored for some reason.
04-12-2015 04:32 PM
White Arctic Fox

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloodybladez3

It's left behind because it's not needed. Let's look back in the days of 2008-09. Let's say you have a Dex Guardian and an Agi Dhan with this gear:
4x 51s= 204
Ears and Eyes= + 76
R5 Talisman = +15
Gold Trophy = +40
Costume and Hat = +30
5x Ancient Weapon = +170 Dex/Agi
+30 base dex/agi
+ 548 stat points =
1113 Base Agi/Dex
With Level 7 Alm, Old Nimble, Alacrity, Quickness, Invoke, 20% Alm Scroll, and Arcane, the Dex Guard has a 166% boost, giving him 2960 Dex. Level 7 Invoke is 5.30x your Dex. The Dex Guard will deal 15.6k + ... let's say 4k with Darkness. In PvP on no DD, this is 5290+ 1300.

With Level 7 Alm, Level 7 Avoid, 20% Alm Scroll, and Arcane, the Dhan gets a 76% boost, giving him 1958 Agi. DB is 530% of your Agility. 5.3 x 1958 is 10300. Mortal Rising gives a 35-40% boost. If it's 35%, the critical damage is boosted to 14015, + 7k with Invenom. In pvp on no DD this is 4600+ 2300

In this case, the Dex Guard does 6.5k total.
The Dhan is dealing 6.6k Total. The Agi Dhan crits HARDER. There's one thing we left out though. The Critical Blow Scroll. Agi Dhans don't get a boost from this, but Dex Guardians do. This makes the Dex Guardians' crits just a little bit stronger than the Dhan's crits. But at what cost?:

The Dex Guardian is relying on 3 extra buffs, which can be debuffed, to reach its potential. The Dhan only needs Almighty. .........................

................It doesn't matter in the end, though. Why? Because of Pure Attack. Back in the early days, it was worth it to use an Agi Dhan or a Dex Guardian. A Fully buffed Str Dhan wasn't always able to 1-shot everything. It was possible for an Agi Dhan to kill a Str Guardian or Defender more efficiently than a Str Dhan could. When it came to killing Vit Dekans, Agi Dhans were often better. These days it doesn't matter. Pdef and Mdef barely matters anymore. When you compare today to 2008, these times it's like you took off everybody's armor, then cast Shout on them.

You can and can't compare agi dhans and dex guards. I know in the end their crit damage WAS about the same althrough Guard can use OS+CS combo which makes them hit verry hard(better than SA). I know how strong they can be because i have one myself...... see the video below of my dex guard lol (no upg wep, no upg rings, no scrolls, buffs lvl 6/7)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHjycARTH-w

CURRENTLY your calculation isn't worth much because of the Onyx armour given out for dex/str/int which gives dex guards an easy 500-600 dex (unbuffed)(ofc the dex buffs are 175% so that results in alot of extra dex), combine that with the cirtical blow scroll that increases crit damage and the OS+CS combo.......Dex guards will crit alot more, specially if you set it out on damage per time unit.....
04-12-2015 04:33 PM
bloodybladez3

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnyangel

You obv never played an agi dhan with the current gear because they are OP when the cards line up. Obv agi dhans suffer from 2 problems 1 being invenom bug (interaction with SD making it so you cant crit) and the 2nd being crit class requires high crit loses DD.

Many people are saying agi dhans have been left behind and its mainly because the new gear favors attack force classes over crit boosts. However agi dhans are still fine when you can crit WITH invenom.

You keep talking as if Agi Dhans are diamonds in the rough, but I just can't see how Agi Dhans, Psy Wizards, or Dex Guardians can be anything more than novelty characters these days. Anything an Agi Dhan can do, a Str Dhan should be able to do better. I wanna see some video proof of how powerful your Agi Dhan is in actual pvp. If you don't want your name to be shown, just blur it out in the options menu.
04-12-2015 04:34 PM
White Arctic Fox

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBNXD

You guys forgot Invenom. Cant be resisted with normal armor only with SD armor and the difference between Crit rate and Elemental damage weapons. You forgot Eternal Vitality from Defenders that's 50% more vit.

I do think working some how in a balance where accuracy and evasion do matter in pvp. DEX is over powered as hell and AGI is just ignored for some reason.

Thank you, ill add the defenders 50% vit buff to the list :)

and yea i dont know how Evasion/Accuracy works but it seems broken to me
04-12-2015 04:47 PM
White Arctic Fox

as for RBNXD and sunnyangel,

Yes agi dhans Invenom is good, it scales with SA and scales well in pvp. Tho agi dhans still rely on ''chance'' they dont have true burst damage, their only skill that gives a 100% output is ''Duplication'' which only does 100% dmg crit +50% dmg crit (WITHOUT invenom) so basically its the same as a normal crit with invenom....probably even less than that...

Dhans are made to be killers in pvp (they cant farm or grind for **** and people dont like them in their party), Str dhans have amazing burst and scale really insane with SA.

I do agree partly when you buy the new 4x upg katar with lets say 24% crit and 70% dd you have a pretty good critrate (especially if you have 4x upg rings +18 as well another 12% crit) but then again, if you spend the same ammount of money on a str dhan. templar, vit dekan or the new class they will be way better.....I'm not suggesting to make agi dhans better than those classes but since your basic agility is way lower than lets say STR/INT/DEX AND their buffs are also low, why not increase them and make them better, also when you dont have MAX gear...
04-12-2015 05:11 PM
bloodybladez3

Invenom's Damage doesn't increase with damage with SA, at least not in this video.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEc2SXExj1E

Until you prove it to us otherwise, Iceyy, Agi Dhans are just novelty characters. It's like a bodyguard choosing to carry an MP40 when he has the option to carry an MP7.
04-12-2015 08:09 PM
RBNXD

I've been thinking for some time if Evade the evasion buff on the Archer tree was like 50% DEX to Evasion and Evasion boost maybe it could help both AGI dhans and Scouts from melee atks on PvP and PvE. But if Evasion\Accuracy is as sunnyangel said then there is no point in boosting it, even Templars accuracy is fked up from BM.
04-12-2015 09:12 PM
sunnyangel

You are trying to put agility dhans into the burst damage role which str avengers already are good at. Agility dhans and dex guards are all about racking up crits with the accumulation buff (OS or SA)

and @bloodyblaze: Psy wizzies are a whole other topic (since mages should deal burst damage but none of them can with our gear) however dex guardians are amazing and I encountered one after the server merge.

1: Dex is the 2nd highest stat buff in the game (vit is the new king with lumir's help)
2: Dex guards get to use a shield (gives you an extra stun as well as block rate from bless shield.
3: As a dex guard you can take advantage of twin aura all stat rings +18 and 2 ruler +18 to get the perfect balance of all stats and attack force

A good dex guard with the gear we have today will be able to fully mana drain you and chain stun you almost forever with 7k-8k dex dont tell me thats not a stone cold killer.

If you have the PH set you can throw 500 dex away and use a 4 pt OLD dagger with max crit so get that and enter god mode
04-12-2015 09:47 PM
Syndiicate

But first let me take a selfie
04-13-2015 02:45 AM
White Arctic Fox

I wouldn't put an agi dhan in a str dhans role but i would like them to be a litte stronger. As sunnyangel said, dex guards can be deadly and hes right, if they are build correctly with the correct gear they have an insane damage output, way better than agi dhans. (partly because of the high % dex that can be buffed)

This is also why i suggested to buff agi more than the mere 7x% and make it around 120%......
04-13-2015 09:08 AM
sunnyangel

Quote:

Originally Posted by snipers334

I wouldn't put an agi dhan in a str dhans role but i would like them to be a litte stronger. As sunnyangel said, dex guards can be deadly and hes right, if they are build correctly with the correct gear they have an insane damage output, way better than agi dhans. (partly because of the high % dex that can be buffed)

This is also why i suggested to buff agi more than the mere 7x% and make it around 120%......

agi dhans dont need that they just need invenom to work 100% of the time lol

My agi dhan had agi twins and 2 necklaces +18, my opening crit would be 7k+7k by the end of SA you are looking at 43k+43k crits they dont need any more agility than that :P
04-13-2015 10:06 AM
RBNXD

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnyangel

agi dhans dont need that they just need invenom to work 100% of the time lol

My agi dhan had agi twins and 2 necklaces +18, my opening crit would be 7k+7k by the end of SA you are looking at 43k+43k crits they dont need any more agility than that :P

Please do show us how to AGI Dhan. I do believe they can still be great assassins with the right gear but they just don't get it ._.
I only think that Accuracy/Evasion rates are way off.
04-13-2015 10:19 AM
poinam

Agi was goods cuz it was hard 2hit them , now every one got so much accuracy and hit agi dhans with every attack. All stats items r fcked up
04-13-2015 12:30 PM
White Arctic Fox

I just tested it and Invenom doesn't scale with SA indeed so thats already a flaw in your theory sunnyangel.....also I highly doubt you got 43+43k crits in pvp. My rings are V+20 (at my dex guard) and I dint even reach that damage(43k) on my crits in pvp at the end of OS+CS combo with 6k+ dex......Agi dhans are weaker than dex guards.....they need their buffs improved to be viable.

Like poinam said, everyone has enough dex so Evasion is useless so your defence is fked up. with the current 4x upg you can get 24% crit and 70% dd which is good so I don't even care that much about it but still their damage is too low compared to almost any other class. (dont come complaining about wizzards coz they can farm etc, dhans are purely made for PVP purposes)

A STR Dhan can actually crit about the same as an agi dhan based on pure melee + some of the agi he gets from all stat items + it has DPP and PP and regular hits that do good damage (like RBNXD said) a str dhan can do everything an agi dhan can do but better....

I would like to see a video of you showing agi dhans ''pvp capabilitys and damage'' you Always say alot on the forums but I've never actually seen much proof of it to be true lol.
04-13-2015 12:53 PM
sunnyangel

rofl I dont have any of my gear anymore ive moved on to tera now.

Having said that SA is better than OS and I am pretty sure my invenom did rack up in storm when I was playing. As far as evasion/accuracy goes.... I had posted an idea a long long time ago to change parry so it scales based on agility so more agility=more parry chance which would counter the 100% accuracy issue.
04-13-2015 03:03 PM
White Arctic Fox

SA is better only because of the defence boost, damage wise OS + CS combo is better. Invenom doesnt stack, i tested it today......I dont know why you are so certain about your statements if you dont play anymore so you don't know the current setup etc...

Anyway, increasing your ''parry'' chance based on agi would solve the whole problem indeed and it would make agi dhans become alot stronger but i doubt thats ever gonna happen, just like my suggestion to increase the % agi on buffs.
04-20-2015 01:27 AM
sl3dg3

objection..... AGI DHANS is a monster it will rip your char easily.... DONT EVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF AGI DHANS.... when it comes to buffs they are not choosy char.... how ever str dhans needs guardians bffs to become stronger when they died they have to look for a str bffer bfore coming back to pve or pvp but agi dhans they died they come back again >_< take note agi dhans are not squishy its a matter how you play with it.... by the way im a rohan ph player and i play agi dhan since 2008.... and now im in rohan blood feud ..... playing agi dhan... again... im going to prove you all that agi dhans is much stronger than your str dhans.... :p
04-20-2015 03:37 AM
bloodybladez3

Quote:

Originally Posted by sl3dg3

objection..... AGI DHANS is a monster it will rip your char easily.... DONT EVER EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF AGI DHANS.... when it comes to buffs they are not choosy char.... how ever str dhans needs guardians bffs to become stronger when they died they have to look for a str bffer bfore coming back to pve or pvp but agi dhans they died they come back again >_< take note agi dhans are not squishy its a matter how you play with it.... by the way im a rohan ph player and i play agi dhan since 2008.... and now im in rohan blood feud ..... playing agi dhan... again... im going to prove you all that agi dhans is much stronger than your str dhans.... :p

Yea, but if a Str Dhan touches you, you'll instantly disintegrate. Whatever AGI does, STR does it 2x better. Yea, a Minie Ball will destroy you, but you don't see soldiers taking that over 5.56 or 7.62...
04-20-2015 10:32 AM
TThommmyy

eh yeah, what people said above str dhan is owning pretty good compare to agi dhans but some agi dhans are still actually hitting pretty good.
with my experience as playing str dhan its pretty simple, 1 debuff str dhans are out. ya can rebuff and run bck to ya buffer for rebuffs and since alot of dumbfcks playing non factor debuff chars it happen 24/7 ya doing it + it sucks playing without str buffs.

still i see a way you can play agi dhan these days specially with the upg rings.

gonna switch 1 of my 115 dhans to agi. ill let ya know how it is playing one.
04-20-2015 03:51 PM
princetralala

yeah why! This character is so underrated. I feel so sad :((((
04-20-2015 04:05 PM
iamcoffeelover

Quote:

Originally Posted by princetralala

yeah why! This character is so underrated. I feel so sad :((((

Feel sorry for the character and users that left behind. Hopefully they can do something to balance the game once again. I think they're trying their best to do so.
04-20-2015 04:32 PM
sunnyangel

I dont think agi dhans are that far behind thomas brought up a good point that the upgrade rings give you an extra 12% crit rate :)
04-21-2015 12:49 AM
bosshunt

Except they haven't sold those upg rings for 3 months now.
04-21-2015 06:45 AM
sunnyangel

buy them off of thomas 1 billion thai baht k
04-21-2015 10:41 AM
RBNXD

If those Upgd Rings arent +18 they are worth as much as artisans +5 are, nothing. Maybe for farming but Twins are greatter than them still so its up to you (the player) to decide what you want and feel its best. GL
04-21-2015 04:32 PM
iamcoffeelover

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnyangel

I dont think agi dhans are that far behind thomas brought up a good point that the upgrade rings give you an extra 12% crit rate :)

Are you using Dhan characters?
04-21-2015 09:02 PM
sunnyangel

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBNXD

If those Upgd Rings arent +18 they are worth as much as artisans +5 are, nothing. Maybe for farming but Twins are greatter than them still so its up to you (the player) to decide what you want and feel its best. GL

Well nobody uses those rings without them being +15 and higher. And obv its prefered if u have the free +18 boost
04-21-2015 09:49 PM
Syndiicate

Just go full ****ing yolo and get a Elemental attack upgrade katar and boooooooooooooooooooom you'll ****ing go goddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
04-22-2015 04:12 AM
RBNXD

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnyangel

Well nobody uses those rings without them being +15 and higher. And obv its prefered if u have the free +18 boost

Yeh, what i wanted to say, so you can compete or even be a factor in pvp vs Feathers/FDs/Beze/Ruller's.
04-24-2015 03:20 PM
iamcoffeelover

Quote:

Originally Posted by bosshunt

Except they haven't sold those upg rings for 3 months now.

I think i saw on one of the threads that this will be available next week.
04-24-2015 06:02 PM
RBNXD

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamcoffeelover

I think i saw on one of the threads that this will be available next week.

Selling this op accs every 3-4 months is not a bad idea actually.
04-25-2015 09:54 AM
tepitepz

Actually, I saw the same thing. GM Irene exposed or told someone that they will sell UPGs later on. Well we just need to wait for it.
04-25-2015 04:10 PM
GodsRage

I think a quarterly sale of them is a good compromise. Selling them on a monthly basis floods the game with upgrades and devalues them (after all if everybody has one why would anybody pay you $300 worth or RPs to buy yours). Quarterly or semi-annual sales would help existing upgrades retain their value and give people time to save up money to buy/forge their own.