Guardians, Worth it or not?

Hello guys, me again xD. now that my dhan is 103 lvling became really slow, so i decided to make another account while my dhan is on HK, and so comes my question about the guardians. Why i never see them on Isen server? can some1 help out with some pros and cons for the guardian class. like good pvper or pve kind of character. Should i pick it or a defender. cuz i see ALOT of defenders.

Also i read on the wiki that a guardian can dual wield swords and off wield a dagger and maybe a shield? what do u guys think.

Thanks!!

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Originally Posted by Cymesta

Hello guys, me again xD. now that my dhan is 103 lvling became really slow, so i decided to make another account while my dhan is on HK, and so comes my question about the guardians. Why i never see them on Isen server? can some1 help out with some pros and cons for the guardian class. like good pvper or pve kind of character. Should i pick it or a defender. cuz i see ALOT of defenders.

Also i read on the wiki that a guardian can dual wield swords and off wield a dagger and maybe a shield? what do u guys think.

Thanks!!

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''lvl 103'' ''really slow'' ..... uh my man? At lvl 103 the xp travels at just below lightspeed. I'll talk to you when you''re 115+40....

Do inter/minor dungeons, you'll be 115 in no time.

Guardian > Defender PVE and PVP wise. Use sword (dd) and dagger (dd + hp/mp abs)

Defender is cheaper to gear, tankier (50/50 vit/str) and very wanted in partys (emp 7 with monthly free ASES 30% attack force and 45% pdf), if you wanna lvl to 115+20 fast & cheap, get a def.

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Originally Posted by snipers334

''lvl 103'' ''really slow'' ..... uh my man? At lvl 103 the xp travels at just below lightspeed. I'll talk to you when you''re 115+40....

Do inter/minor dungeons, you'll be 115 in no time.

Guardian > Defender PVE and PVP wise. Use sword (dd) and dagger (dd + hp/mp abs)

Defender is cheaper to gear, tankier (50/50 vit/str) and very wanted in partys (emp 7 with monthly free ASES 30% attack force and 45% pdf), if you wanna lvl to 115+20 fast & cheap, get a def.

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Well i do know that higher lvls are harder to get. and on Isen server not much ppl are doing inter dungeons so. anyways i wont rush it lol.
About the Guardian tho what stat build do u recommend? And if u would rank guardian pvp-wise where would u rank him?

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Originally Posted by Cymesta

Well i do know that higher lvls are harder to get. and on Isen server not much ppl are doing inter dungeons so. anyways i wont rush it lol.
About the Guardian tho what stat build do u recommend? And if u would rank guardian pvp-wise where would u rank him?

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Oh you're at isen lol, come jainus it's much more populated. Full str is the way to go.

I can only rank classes on Jainus, Isen is probably similar but I'm not sure what chars are capable of doing there, I quit ISEN at 115+3, when the lvl cap was +10.

Jainus PVP rank: (damage and rpk ability wise)

1. Int Warlock
2. Agi Avenger
3. Str Noir
4. Str Guardian
4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc. Everything else

There is not much difference between Noir and Avenger, Avenger is better for rpk since it can attack from hide and silence people. For group/party pvp I'd say Noir/Guardian/Warlock own pretty much any other class. Warlock falls off a bit in party pvp since people can outheal their dots as well as spirit makes their whole skillset useless, nontheless they are still really good (specially AOE mana drain)

Best allround classes for pvp,rpk, group pvp and grinding and farming inter are: 1. Noir, 2. Guardian, 3. Predator

*Note: Not to forget Rumirs, which are #1 supports and can deal a tonn of damage too. great in almost any situation
**Note: Predators are really good at grinding, sustain and inter, they are okay-ish for group pvp but can't withstand nor put out CC. For rpk they are pretty crappy if you ask me but other people disagree with this.

Gotta disagree with you about Guards > Defenders especially in pve.
I played Guard b4, changed to Def months ago (also coz i thought they would release the balance patch soon so guards will be nerfed lol)
And i definetely do better in PVE as i did as a guardian.
pvp wise im still able to beat almost everything even tho when i really miss rohas blessing.

Anyway, warlock is nasty as **** but u need to know what youre doing.
On isen we only had 2 warlocks u had to take serious.
One quit few months ago, the other one changed class again.
Warlocks on isen arent very popular somehow.
Same with agi avengers. Nobody sees the benefits of the avenger they are all blinded by the extra crit rate of predators katar mastery.
Noir and Rumir are awesome but yea the arrendal weapon is the huge negative point on this.

@topic get a guard to support your dhan with critical aura.
Go full strenght with shield and dagger or sword & dagger.
Or get a rumir for a great party support

Gud to see someone reading the wiki page
Gotta update some stuff still QQ

Well guardian beats everyone in a group pvp so ^^

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Originally Posted by Jester999

Gotta disagree with you about Guards > Defenders especially in pve.
I played Guard b4, changed to Def months ago (also coz i thought they would release the balance patch soon so guards will be nerfed lol)
And i definetely do better in PVE as i did as a guardian.
pvp wise im still able to beat almost everything even tho when i really miss rohas blessing.

Anyway, warlock is nasty as **** but u need to know what youre doing.
On isen we only had 2 warlocks u had to take serious.
One quit few months ago, the other one changed class again.
Warlocks on isen arent very popular somehow.
Same with agi avengers. Nobody sees the benefits of the avenger they are all blinded by the extra crit rate of predators katar mastery.
Noir and Rumir are awesome but yea the arrendal weapon is the huge negative point on this.

@topic get a guard to support your dhan with critical aura.
Go full strenght with shield and dagger or sword & dagger.
Or get a rumir for a great party support

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Guardian #1 group pvp

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Originally Posted by Jester999

Gotta disagree with you about Guards > Defenders especially in pve.
I played Guard b4, changed to Def months ago (also coz i thought they would release the balance patch soon so guards will be nerfed lol)
And i definetely do better in PVE as i did as a guardian.
pvp wise im still able to beat almost everything even tho when i really miss rohas blessing.

Anyway, warlock is nasty as **** but u need to know what youre doing.
On isen we only had 2 warlocks u had to take serious.
One quit few months ago, the other one changed class again.
Warlocks on isen arent very popular somehow.
Same with agi avengers. Nobody sees the benefits of the avenger they are all blinded by the extra crit rate of predators katar mastery.
Noir and Rumir are awesome but yea the arrendal weapon is the huge negative point on this.

@topic get a guard to support your dhan with critical aura.
Go full strenght with shield and dagger or sword & dagger.
Or get a rumir for a great party support

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It might be a little different on Isen but for Jainus it's 100% sure:

Guardian > defender

Full str Guard does 1 mill aoe crits in pve no problem, it's clearing big waves of mobs in inter faster than any other class can. PVP wise defenders are too slow, their movement speed is really bad, specially with Fix on. Now so many classes get movement speed bonuses from their ultis you really just can't pvp with a class that is as slow as a defender. Defenders skills are split into damage and support skills, this also makes them less viable for pvp than guards. I've pvp'ed vs max geared guards and defs, almost all defs changed and went guard or played another class with time....

I think there is currently only one good high lvl defender on Jainus that pvps with it and that's Tifa, I think he's just trying def coz he's been guard, warlock, savage and idk what more. All at +50.

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Originally Posted by manciai

Well guardian beats everyone in a group pvp so ^^

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Originally Posted by shannon11

Guardian #1 group pvp

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Yup, guards are amazing for group pvp. Don't underestimate noir/warlock tho, it's less of a rambo playstyle but it's very effective.

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Originally Posted by snipers334

It might be a little different on Isen but for Jainus it's 100% sure:

Guardian > defender

Full str Guard does 1 mill aoe crits in pve no problem, it's clearing big waves of mobs in inter faster than any other class can. PVP wise defenders are too slow, their movement speed is really bad, specially with Fix on. Now so many classes get movement speed bonuses from their ultis you really just can't pvp with a class that is as slow as a defender. Defenders skills are split into damage and support skills, this also makes them less viable for pvp than guards. I've pvp'ed vs max geared guards and defs, almost all defs changed and went guard or played another class with time....

I think there is currently only one good high lvl defender on Jainus that pvps with it and that's Tifa, I think he's just trying def coz he's been guard, warlock, savage and idk what more. All at +50.

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uhh id like to see some fraps of Tifa then. are there any o_O ? wonder how much melee he has and how much dmg hes dealing in fixation to 70% DD users.

well i just can talk for isen, so im totally with u if u say on jainus guard are the way to go when i look at the huge DD and HP people have over there so having Order Swing is a must and also as u mentioned about the crits, sure with the crit % on upgrades guards are strong.
i watched some fraps of a guard in PA, yea looks fun :)
also the ultimate skill of the guard is obviously a huge plus, the defender ulti is defense like, guess with this they even wanna force us to see the def mostly as a tank/empower support.

anyway, on isen the average HP and DD is around +65k + 38%.
so i dont need the befenfits of the atk speed or rohas blessing from a guard to be deadly as ****.
youre right about the movement especially in fixation but well remember the time you couldnt even move in fixation or crazy standing? yea? so im down for it.

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Originally Posted by Jester999

uhh id like to see some fraps of Tifa then. are there any o_O ? wonder how much melee he has and how much dmg hes dealing in fixation to 70% DD users.

well i just can talk for isen, so im totally with u if u say on jainus guard are the way to go when i look at the huge DD and HP people have over there so having Order Swing is a must and also as u mentioned about the crits, sure with the crit % on upgrades guards are strong.
i watched some fraps of a guard in PA, yea looks fun :)
also the ultimate skill of the guard is obviously a huge plus, the defender ulti is defense like, guess with this they even wanna force us to see the def mostly as a tank/empower support.

anyway, on isen the average HP and DD is around +65k + 38%.
so i dont need the befenfits of the atk speed or rohas blessing from a guard to be deadly as ****.
youre right about the movement especially in fixation but well remember the time you couldnt even move in fixation or crazy standing? yea? so im down for it.

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The best thing about def is their crits in fixation and I believe that if people only have 65k hp and 38% DD you can smack em down in a few hits with fix on. So yea, the servers are quite different, thus different builds or classes might be good.

I have no idea about Tifa, I just know it's a +50 def atm coz I've seen him walk around.

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Originally Posted by Jester999

uhh id like to see some fraps of Tifa then. are there any o_O ? wonder how much melee he has and how much dmg hes dealing in fixation to 70% DD users.

well i just can talk for isen, so im totally with u if u say on jainus guard are the way to go when i look at the huge DD and HP people have over there so having Order Swing is a must and also as u mentioned about the crits, sure with the crit % on upgrades guards are strong.
i watched some fraps of a guard in PA, yea looks fun :)
also the ultimate skill of the guard is obviously a huge plus, the defender ulti is defense like, guess with this they even wanna force us to see the def mostly as a tank/empower support.

anyway, on isen the average HP and DD is around +65k + 38%.
so i dont need the befenfits of the atk speed or rohas blessing from a guard to be deadly as ****.
youre right about the movement especially in fixation but well remember the time you couldnt even move in fixation or crazy standing? yea? so im down for it.

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My 3rd favorite class was defender (Warlock + Templah always #1 / 2)

To comment on this isen also has the advantage of aspd stones and possibly movement speed stones. Fox outclasses this but I exclusively pvped with royal dragon when I was playing. Literally no situation where it isnt good. I could play defender with the sprint scroll (I could get an avg of 60 sprint scrolls a week multilogging for CV) plus the dragon and outrun people with fixation on. If you were to use a fox and aspd stone you would have almost no aspd penalty but I always petitioned from day 1 for defender blunt mastery to give 20-25% aspd.

Aside from that defenders need a huge overhaul to be better than guards, too many useless skills in the defender tree that need to be changed out!

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Originally Posted by snipers334

The best thing about def is their crits in fixation and I believe that if people only have 65k hp and 38% DD you can smack em down in a few hits with fix on. So yea, the servers are quite different, thus different builds or classes might be good.

I have no idea about Tifa, I just know it's a +50 def atm coz I've seen him walk around.

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to bad about Tifa :( really wanna know how much hes hitting and what melee he reach over there.
the ulti skill might be pretty nasty to be tanky as **** in combination with 70% DD but dmg wise i guess in fixation he might do decent dmg but wont be fast enough to take down high hp players maybe?
anyways as u said, for some races u cant compare both servers.
on isen i do around 25k shield burden + a few hits and fix and my target is down lol
not gonna happen on jainus

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Originally Posted by sunnyangel

My 3rd favorite class was defender (Warlock + Templah always #1 / 2)

To comment on this isen also has the advantage of aspd stones and possibly movement speed stones. Fox outclasses this but I exclusively pvped with royal dragon when I was playing. Literally no situation where it isnt good. I could play defender with the sprint scroll (I could get an avg of 60 sprint scrolls a week multilogging for CV) plus the dragon and outrun people with fixation on. If you were to use a fox and aspd stone you would have almost no aspd penalty but I always petitioned from day 1 for defender blunt mastery to give 20-25% aspd.

Aside from that defenders need a huge overhaul to be better than guards, too many useless skills in the defender tree that need to be changed out!

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i loooove royal dragons. used to have one when i played str dhan ages ago D:
anyways im using a fox lv3 and a onyx club (so no extra atk speed from it) and im still doing well.
i really like the atk spd idea for blunt mastery :3
about useless skills...well imo its only bleeding, change mind and the mana(&/hp) aura which are useless.
the other "bad" skills are up to u like shield push(which i had as another dmg skill), whirlwind (waste in skillpoints, but decent in pve) or crash above (totally up to u)

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Originally Posted by Jester999

to bad about Tifa :( really wanna know how much hes hitting and what melee he reach over there.
the ulti skill might be pretty nasty to be tanky as **** in combination with 70% DD but dmg wise i guess in fixation he might do decent dmg but wont be fast enough to take down high hp players maybe?
anyways as u said, for some races u cant compare both servers.
on isen i do around 25k shield burden + a few hits and fix and my target is down lol
not gonna happen on jainus





i loooove royal dragons. used to have one when i played str dhan ages ago D:
anyways im using a fox lv3 and a onyx club (so no extra atk speed from it) and im still doing well.
i really like the atk spd idea for blunt mastery :3
about useless skills...well imo its only bleeding, change mind and the mana(&/hp) aura which are useless.
the other "bad" skills are up to u like shield push(which i had as another dmg skill), whirlwind (waste in skillpoints, but decent in pve) or crash above (totally up to u)

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shout 6 should be 75% with 7 85%
extinction can still be resisted
whirlwind damage too low for an ultimate skill
hp/mp aura have to be replaced with 2 new skills preferably some damage skills
blunt mastery needs 20-25% aspd
defenders need a secondary str buff! and defenders should get a 10% melee buff for using a shield (through shield mastery)


skills I would like to see on defender to replace hp/mp aura:

1: Stat drain (a buffed version of warlock's ability drain)
2: their own crazy str buff


As far as those knight tree skills go..... would be nice if crash above could proc more even if they have to add it to one of defender's buffs.

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Originally Posted by sunnyangel

shout 6 should be 75% with 7 85%
extinction can still be resisted
whirlwind damage too low for an ultimate skill
hp/mp aura have to be replaced with 2 new skills preferably some damage skills
blunt mastery needs 20-25% aspd
defenders need a secondary str buff! and defenders should get a 10% melee buff for using a shield (through shield mastery)


skills I would like to see on defender to replace hp/mp aura:

1: Stat drain (a buffed version of warlock's ability drain)
2: their own crazy str buff


As far as those knight tree skills go..... would be nice if crash above could proc more even if they have to add it to one of defender's buffs.

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Shout. Rofl. Dont remind me about that ****.
Its not working properly(in pvp)
It DOES drop the phy def of your target but it does NOT really change the dmg he receive.
Ive send a few tickets about it, made screenshots and frapsed it. (Which they told me i have to do...)
And nothing happened. The usual way.
They send it to an higher department. I was waiting. Was asking whats the matter & why it takes so long, at the end of a few tickets and around 1 month they just apologized and told me if there will be any update on skillchanges they will let me know and post it here & on their facebook page. GG WP thanks for nothing.
Remember aaaages ago when str defs just needed shout, fixation and empower 7 and u were good to go.

Offtopic, not kidding. Currently we got the worst gms ever.
Zyvox is a huge joke with zero game knowledge. #facepalm
Same for the rest of these clowns. Theres only Raie i can take a bit serious coz actually at least hes trying....

Extinction, yea its sad but i gotta deal with it.
Whirlwind, never had it but the % of atk boost looks high enough to deal average dmg in pve (well until u get leaders mind)
Replace auras would be cool (but dude youll need so many skillpoints x] )
Guards got heavy weapon and warcry, why defenders only got shout as an "effect skill" so yea kind of an stat drain would be cool or just give em warcry aswell (specially if they see defenders as an party support, in group pvp/war they can use shout and warcry and give empower? Sounds great to me)
On a pserver i used to have the hp aura when i was a vit def.
When i had to face agi dhans i was using it, ward is useless obviously and everytime i sit down i got some nice hp recovery, but pretty much useless here (wait, in combination with preds healing trap...do u get even more hp back? THAT would be awesome o.o)

Shield Mastery exclusive for defenders giving 35% block rate is gonna change a lot of things in pvp concerning Guards getting additional crit rate and using dagger and sword only to.

HP/Physical Aura as an Atk Spd only aura for pt and self. Offensive, support aura mostly.
MP/Recovery Aura as a 100% elemental ignoring aura for pt and self. Ignore elemental as in all elements even Invenom and Thorn Whip. Will make Dhan have to actually use their skills to drop said defender.

At least those would be a nice additions to the defender tree that would actually be useful specially for defenders that want to play between defense and damage dealing.
Thinking about their lack of CC release spells like Priests that would be actually awesome.

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Originally Posted by snipers334

''lvl 103'' ''really slow'' ..... uh my man? At lvl 103 the xp travels at just below lightspeed. I'll talk to you when you''re 115+40....

Do inter/minor dungeons, you'll be 115 in no time.

Guardian > Defender PVE and PVP wise. Use sword (dd) and dagger (dd + hp/mp abs)

Defender is cheaper to gear, tankier (50/50 vit/str) and very wanted in partys (emp 7 with monthly free ASES 30% attack force and 45% pdf), if you wanna lvl to 115+20 fast & cheap, get a def.

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Waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttt this brings me to a question. Why Minor/Inter?!? inter is for lvl 115 if im not mistaken, how could inter help with getting easy lvl 115 then O.o
Sry for beeing offtopic but that rly bugged me, because IF i can get my lvl 10x toons into inter it would be great.

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Originally Posted by DeadMansEnd

Waiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttt this brings me to a question. Why Minor/Inter?!? inter is for lvl 115 if im not mistaken, how could inter help with getting easy lvl 115 then O.o
Sry for beeing offtopic but that rly bugged me, because IF i can get my lvl 10x toons into inter it would be great.

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You cant its only minimum level requirement not max.
For example:
I can enter Minor with my Priest(115+9), Wiz(106), Ranger(99). Minimum level requirement is 90.
Inter only my Priest(115+9), Zerker(115), Scout(115+3) can enter. Minimum level requirement is 115.
Superior only Transcended(115+50) can enter. But considering how Inter is i believe this dung is impossible with current gear(+18 accs and such).

In my experience when i came back to check out the new elemental dungeon I got one of my rangers level 95 getting a little over 15% exp per stage and i was doing runs till stage 4 so that's a little bit higher than 60% per run. My wizard was level 102 and with the days I've been playing and some dung reset scrolls she got to 105 easy. My Priest was different cause i had to enter Inter dung to get good exp(0.2%) tho minor gives her more than i would ever get per killing mobs. Around 0.7% first 5 stages and 2% stages 6-9.

So far my recommendation for Minor dungeon is get a medium geared(Twins, ok-ish weapon, +5 Onyx) character to clean it up for you and don't waste your time with the last stage(5), the boss is not worth it.
For Inter a full pt with a Rumir, Def/Guard, Priest, other damage deals is a must with pro gear(Upgrades). The mobs hit with no mercy and you can barely scratch them with twins or even artisans/insurgents, upgrade boss drops is a must.
Get some friends to add you in any free slot available for this Dung. The exp is insane for 115+0 characters and you could get to +20 without too much effort.

GL

It might be a little different on Isen but for Jainus it's 100% sure