Isen balanced?

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Originally Posted by eikniwt

You forgot the shiny option stones. That means 56%DD, so it's going to be likely 3/4k with ~20-30k hp.

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So let's just assume your numbers are correct and you are on the toon with the dd weapon...what are you hitting that templar back for?

Just for the sake of a comparison here...on Jin with 4x +6 boss drops, chimera acc, and a +6 walter my self buffed str guardian with a 6x% melee/dd sword doesn't even hit a decently geared, buffed templar using a craft weapon(low dd) for 1000 damage.

Now why would I throw this out there for an example. If the nerfed forged gear caps around 40% and scrolls they decide to cap at 20% instead of 30%, you would get a 60% bonus to melee, which is exactly what I'm getting now with the stat caps. In addition to that, the total stats added from 4x+6 feathers, chimera acc, and a +6 walters is going to be more than whatever gear/costumes will be available on the new server.(and if its not I guess the whole argument about not having OP stuff is out the window)

So now taking all that into account...even if templars "only" hit 3-4k on someone using a dd weapon, but at the same time the guy with the dd weapon won't even be able to hit the templar with lower dd for 1k, and the templar is also swinging faster and critting more often, do you not see why this server is screwed right from the start?

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Originally Posted by eikniwt

Other classes are going to hit 3-4k because temps would have 32DD.

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Leo's old guardian video wasn't even hitting 4k regs and that was with 6x% WA glacials, full buffed, full scrolled. Shiny stones weren't around when he made that video so people had lower dd then anyhow. Plus he was pimped out in that video with OP costume and stuff...so how the hell people going to be hitting that hard with weaker scrolls, weaker costumes, and weaker forged gear. If they take off their dd gear for WA maybe they'd do 2ks, but suddenly those 3-4k temp hits turn in to 6-8k, and if they roll a melee/dd weapon they won't even be doing 1k regular to temp.

I don't know why your still trying to debate this server will be balanced. Even with your own estimate of temps hitting 3-4k regulars vs 56dd, its still obviously leaving them in a position where they are brokenly OP.

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Originally Posted by kromantian

Temps wont reach 9k hits dude. To 5xdd? Never.

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If this server has the allstats from conquerer levels and all the new titles, and they decide to release 30% scrolls on this server, you'll be eating those words eventually.

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Originally Posted by Gadwin83

If this server has the allstats from conquerer levels and all the new titles, and they decide to release 30% scrolls on this server, you'll be eating those words eventually.

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If If If, until then I will be having fun.

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Originally Posted by Gadwin83

Leo's old guardian video wasn't even hitting 4k regs and that was with 6x% WA glacials, full buffed, full scrolled. Shiny stones weren't around when he made that video so people had lower dd then anyhow. Plus he was pimped out in that video with OP costume and stuff...so how the hell people going to be hitting that hard with weaker scrolls, weaker costumes, and weaker forged gear. If they take off their dd gear for WA maybe they'd do 2ks, but suddenly those 3-4k temp hits turn in to 6-8k, and if they roll a melee/dd weapon they won't even be doing 1k regular to temp.

I don't know why your still trying to debate this server will be balanced. Even with your own estimate of temps hitting 3-4k regulars vs 56dd, its still obviously leaving them in a position where they are brokenly OP.

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He was hitting 4k with regular rulers lets make that part clear at least. If leo was still playing he would have 4 silvas +18 thats double the pure melee on that ruler and more than double the all stats. He was really ****in strong relative to the templars he was pvping and most importantly you dont see him in the video tanking any temps because thats not what guards are meant to do he skips straight to the important part him combo-ing out people.

Here look imba can do it too! even without stunner. (INB4: no heroic I know)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eosoMvYKiiI


Comparing templars to guards is not fair because conceptually they are different. A temp can derp his way into a fight auto with his high hits and his 30 second reflect but a guard is all about finding openings and taking advantage of them. "The blunt dump" is a problem but I know for a fact as somebody who still pvps in this game templars are not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Before the stat cap I had 5 guards and 3 str defs in my guild now they either quit or moved on to playing templar which was rather easy since all they had to do was change their swords/daggers for maces. Ish used to be good at 1v1ing the templars with the 70 second reflect using shield push and a mobi pet to kite around them until reflect is down not letting them debuff both stone skin and roha blessing harassing with mana drain or catching the mana drain right before they can pop reflect again and starting the combo I mean its not has hard as you want to make it out to be.

Here look ranger killing vit dekans with upg zhens? priests too? no antipot?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVWY2HlWbN0



There is nothing wrong with those classes its just a mentality problem people dont want to play those classes because its EASIER to play a templar but at the end of the day it was a whole lot more rewarding for tom to kill OP dekans with a ranger than it was for me to kill them with a templar.

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Originally Posted by ShadowAce

He was hitting 4k with regular rulers lets make that part clear at least. If leo was still playing he would have 4 silvas +18 thats double the pure melee on that ruler and more than double the all stats. He was really ****in strong relative to the templars he was pvping and most importantly you dont see him in the video tanking any temps because thats not what guards are meant to do he skips straight to the important part him combo-ing out people.

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He was hitting 4k against a couple scrubs in the video that obviously had ****ty armor and 0dd. Everyone else was 2-3k. Let's make that part clear at least.

And why did you not see him tanking any templars? Well actually you didn't really see him tanking much of anything, because his video was basically random clips of him ganking people that weren't really targeting him. Let's make that part clear as well.

Oh yeah, and furthermore, temps were hitting 8-15k around when that video was made. Let's make that part clear as well. Temps could just walk up and derp derp derp for more dps then was only capable of during once every few minutes with an uninterrupted ordered swing. Let's make that clear as well, as long as you are in the mood for making things clear.

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Originally Posted by ShadowAce

Comparing templars to guards is not fair because conceptually they are different. A temp can derp his way into a fight auto with his high hits and his 30 second reflect but a guard is all about finding openings and taking advantage of them. "The blunt dump" is a problem but I know for a fact as somebody who still pvps in this game templars are not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Before the stat cap I had 5 guards and 3 str defs in my guild now they either quit or moved on to playing templar which was rather easy since all they had to do was change their swords/daggers for maces. Ish used to be good at 1v1ing the templars with the 70 second reflect using shield push and a mobi pet to kite around them until reflect is down not letting them debuff both stone skin and roha blessing harassing with mana drain or catching the mana drain right before they can pop reflect again and starting the combo I mean its not has hard as you want to make it out to be.

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*yawn* We've been over this before. The only thing allowing humans on Ran to be competitive was the massive overkill dd they were getting from upgrades. The second that was removed they became unplayable. What does that mean? Well it means nobody plays them on Jin, and when things settle on the new server, nobody will be playing them on their either. Only exception obviously being vit defenders to keep templars alive, let's make that clear as well.

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Originally Posted by ShadowAce

There is nothing wrong with those classes its just a mentality problem people dont want to play those classes because its EASIER to play a templar but at the end of the day it was a whole lot more rewarding for tom to kill OP dekans with a ranger than it was for me to kill them with a templar.

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There is nothing wrong with those classes(other then humans getting insanely shafted on the stat caps) its just a mentality problem people dont want to play those classes because templars are STUPIDLY OVERPOWERED but at the end of the day it was a whole lot more rewarding for tom to kill OP dekans with a ranger than it was for me to kill them with an even more OP templar.

I made your statement more factually correct for you, let's make that clear as well.

Guards, Dhans, Rangers those all are more of assassins than group pvp. Defs, Priests, Wizs, Scouts are more of group pvp than assasins. Omg, even though guards have aeo they aren't group pvp ? Yes, because they will most likely get debuffed by wizz's aeo. You have to set in the back and find your target then rush him, that's it.

But temps have aeo too yet they dont need to set in the back? Yes because temps have debuffs, beside, they can rebuff them selves quickly because of the fact they only need 4 buffs, yet guards need more than 5 buffs if I recall correctly.

With new server, and characters having less hp, less dmg, will give the chance for guards to take them down fast. That's beside guards can actually use 2 hands chimera/tali weapons which will give them them very high dd, very high attack.

Nobody plays these characters anymore because the fact that temps aeo hurts ****ing bad, they proly gona die 3 shots.

The fact that temps has less time on reflect now, makes it even better.

Guards/dhans etc only chance now to face a temp is to get him caught without reflect, and believe me they will kill the temp.

Guard vs temp, guard can mana drain so he doesn't get debuffed, rush, stun and take the temp down.

Dhan vs temp, the fact that there are no enchanted bossdrops/ 30%scrolls/op custom, will give the chance for dhans to do a better mix, that's beside dhans have lots of stuns. And most likely agi dhans will wreck more than str dhans.

Ranger vs temp, find a temp without reflect and lol u will take him down easy, ranger can poke u, can silence u, can deny pots from u, can slow you, can stun you, can combo you.

Anyhow, temps wont do that much of dmg, and I believe they wont do more than 5k.

These videos is bad comparision because is a ranger upg and dual epic guard

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Originally Posted by kromantian

Guards, Dhans, Rangers those all are more of assassins than group pvp. Defs, Priests, Wizs, Scouts are more of group pvp than assasins. Omg, even though guards have aeo they aren't group pvp ? Yes, because they will most likely get debuffed by wizz's aeo. You have to set in the back and find your target then rush him, that's it.

But temps have aeo too yet they dont need to set in the back? Yes because temps have debuffs, beside, they can rebuff them selves quickly because of the fact they only need 4 buffs, yet guards need more than 5 buffs if I recall correctly.

With new server, and characters having less hp, less dmg, will give the chance for guards to take them down fast. That's beside guards can actually use 2 hands chimera/tali weapons which will give them them very high dd, very high attack.

Nobody plays these characters anymore because the fact that temps aeo hurts ****ing bad, they proly gona die 3 shots.

The fact that temps has less time on reflect now, makes it even better.

Guards/dhans etc only chance now to face a temp is to get him caught without reflect, and believe me they will kill the temp.

Guard vs temp, guard can mana drain so he doesn't get debuffed, rush, stun and take the temp down.

Dhan vs temp, the fact that there are no enchanted bossdrops/ 30%scrolls/op custom, will give the chance for dhans to do a better mix, that's beside dhans have lots of stuns. And most likely agi dhans will wreck more than str dhans.

Ranger vs temp, find a temp without reflect and lol u will take him down easy, ranger can poke u, can silence u, can deny pots from u, can slow you, can stun you, can combo you.

Anyhow, temps wont do that much of dmg, and I believe they wont do more than 5k.

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Even so 5k dmg from auto attack with around 30k hp on any non vit char, you will be dead in around 2 sec. Every single class you bring here have counter in templar skills, not to mention defender paste to templars bottom in any case.

They should make real changes and then release new server. They open Isen in 22 july, but any skill changes maybe will do at the end of the year. Where is logic ? I gladly will play this game again, but when they will stop making same mistakes like with tempest, divinity, jin .... How many hopes must be destroyed to understand, they need to do better job in game core, instead of making another server with ghost population after 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Tomasen

Even so 5k dmg from auto attack with around 30k hp on any non vit char, you will be dead in around 2 sec. Every single class you bring here have counter in templar skills, not to mention defender paste to templars bottom in any case.

They should make real changes and then release new server. They open Isen in 22 july, but any skill changes maybe will do at the end of the year. Where is logic ? I gladly will play this game again, but when they will stop making same mistakes like with tempest, divinity, jin .... How many hopes must be destroyed to understand, they need to do better job in game core, instead of making another server with ghost population after 3 months.

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+1, I am even not going to keep repeating myself, pointless, same people can't understand basic logic of this game or they even didn't have an templar or didn't pvp any good one...