Guardian Class Discussion~

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Originally Posted by Karazy1337

Great post again Gank83! Really like the info. What's the combo you keep talking about? I wish we had players who recorded themselves PVPing. That would be fun content to post up and watch on a thread like that. I would like to work on creating a guide with information like this in it, to help our newer players have a better understanding of what exactly is going on with their class. I can tell just from looking at some of the moves, they are definitely 5/5 in importance, like the buffs and the stuns. But what about the other moves? Is Final Crash not worth it? Knight's Mind? Bleed? Please, enlighten me as to why those moves aren't really mentioned! What skill points will you sacrifice for the class ultimate?

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He is talking about the The (in)famous OS/CS/KS guardian combo.

If it can run its course it can kill a vit character that has a reasonable damage drop (i.e. not 80% DD) in a single sequence. But that combo sequence is engraved in stone and can be interrupted really easily. A quick stun in the middle of it and your damage peters out as your opponents walks away... or kills you. Guardians take a fair bit of skill and timing to play because they can't simply run around hitting folks with 20k regular damage whacks at the rate of 3-4 per second or nuke folks with a 200K damage whammy.

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Originally Posted by Karazy1337

Great post again Gank83! Really like the info. What's the combo you keep talking about? I wish we had players who recorded themselves PVPing. That would be fun content to post up and watch on a thread like that. I would like to work on creating a guide with information like this in it, to help our newer players have a better understanding of what exactly is going on with their class. I can tell just from looking at some of the moves, they are definitely 5/5 in importance, like the buffs and the stuns. But what about the other moves? Is Final Crash not worth it? Knight's Mind? Bleed? Please, enlighten me as to why those moves aren't really mentioned! What skill points will you sacrifice for the class ultimate?

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Basically your combo is order swing + crazy swing.

Before the update when OS was 30 second duration with a longer cooldown, the ultimate goal was to use OS, hit for 20 seconds(well like 18 seconds since your skills tend to not instantly activate), then use CS for the last 10 seconds for maximum damage. It almost never worked...if you didn't have Roha's Blessing and Stoneskin active at the same time you generally just ended up cc'd or crushed by a templars overwhelming dps advantage. If you did have all those goodies buffed, someone would generally just debuff you and you were pretty much just trash at that point for a couple minutes while you waited on cooldowns. This is why guardians(well most classes to be fair about it) have been useless as DPS for so long. You'd get a decent combo once every few minutes, and if your combo went absolutely flawlessly(which is almost never did) you would approach templar like dps for a few seconds every few minutes...or you could just play a templar, do DPS a guardian would hope to do for the last few seconds of a perfect combo all the time, and just pop reflect and not have to worry at all about debuffs or cc.

Anyways...the way I play it now that things have shorter cool downs is I just pop OS while engaging someone. Since I get to use it more often, but at a shorter duration, I am less interested in trying to maximize it and more interested in just laying it on as often as possible. I'll use OS, rush to hold them in place, then blue drain so hopefully they won't be able to use a stun break. I'll then use CS to start laying on the damage. I keep an eye on the duration of rush, and time out stunner accordingly to keep them in place. After hitting my stunner I generally hit Final Crash and Knight Symbol to get some spike damage near the end of my combo. Ideally I get them in before CS runs out so they benefit from the CS damage bonus as well. Basically the way I look at it is I can lock a single target in place for 14-15 seconds with Rush/Stunner, even though my OS lasts for 20 seconds I'm aiming to make effective use out of it for 14-15 seconds as trying to make full use of the 20 seconds means they get a 5-6 second window to do something to wreck my combo. This is just speaking from how I've been playing in PA since its all I've really done post update, if its a smaller scale fight with less potential random stuff going on around you that can mess you up, or a group on voice chat I'm sure its a lot more practical trying to maximize your OS a bit more.

Anyways, as far as skill builds go...buffs, stuns OS/CS/KS are the most important, there is a little variance in builds depending upon dual wield vs dagger/shield, and I feel like a few of the skills I have aren't better than ones I didn't take...its just a simple matter of not having points for everything, but really the only skills I'd personally never take would be blessed aim since I never miss anyhow and change mind. When I get to the ultimate skill I'll probably be stripping points out of assault crash. I maxed it back in the day before Knight's Aim existed as it was guardians only aoe and I solo'd a lot, but with now with the passive aoe its not that I don't still use assault crash or that it isn't useful, its probably just going to be the victim of being the skill I'd least mind losing.

I'm wondering a few things about guardian builds myself (I've Always played dex guards not str). Since you don't have enough points (as Gank83 described) to max. everything there are choices. I just don't know which skills are the best ones to use (pvp wise).

I'm playing str guard dagger/shield, I have chronic (pretty bad)laggs where I currently live so I can't test some of these things, wondering if anyone else did.

-Shield Push(lvl 6/7): is this viable, say a guard attack you and combos you and you shieldpush him will he stop attacking or is this so buggy and laggy it wont really work? Is it possible to shieldpush someone away from your main dps in a party to say give him 2-3 seconds of no incomming dps to heal/tear whatever or is this also too laggy/buggy?

-Is Final Crash worth making lvl 6 or just keep it 1? (I have KS 6) also would you end your combo with FC or start your combo with it? I use KS at the end of a combo to spike. Some people say it's better to start off with FC (to increase your starting damage) while other swear to keep it till the end for both KS & FC as spike damage. I'm wondering what gives you the best total damage over your full combo in the end.

- Assault crash worth it to make 6 and say use it at the end of OS+CS to do high AOE dmg or doesn't this work that well?

In general, if you have to choose between making (2) of these skills lvl 6, which ones and why?(consider it's build for pvp/war): Heavy Weapon, Assault Crash, Final Crash, Shield Push, War Cry

Yep, these days, Dag+Shield is much better than Sword+Shield. People easily get over 1.5k pure Att from random stuff, so the 200-300 more WA from a Sword is insignificant when you look at your boost in attack speed.

Final crash and assault crash are both borderline useless at this point.

Shield push is a great skill fits guardian's current toolkit well which is to disrupt pvp. You can shield push a priest or DPS out of obli range and stunlock away also known as not being a useless sack of ****.

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Originally Posted by sunnyangel

Final crash and assault crash are both borderline useless at this point.

Shield push is a great skill fits guardian's current toolkit well which is to disrupt pvp. You can shield push a priest or DPS out of obli range and stunlock away also known as not being a useless sack of ****.

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Cheers, Shieldpush and Heavy Weapon it is, together with blue drain gonna try to be a pain in the ass :P

Shield Push is great for a Defenders utility skill set Vit or Str. I used that skill when playing one in a pserver and worked great vs templars and priests. Is a must have if you ask me. :)

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Originally Posted by RBNXD

Shield Push is great for a Defenders utility skill set Vit or Str. I used that skill when playing one in a pserver and worked great vs templars and priests. Is a must have if you ask me. :)

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It's about guard tho :P but yes, since guards/defenders both use shield + main wep they both can use shieldpush, I knew it was a good skill but I just didn't know if it was buggy/laggy.....you never know with rohan lmao.

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Originally Posted by snipers334

Cheers, Shieldpush and Heavy Weapon it is, together with blue drain gonna try to be a pain in the ass :P

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Blue drain is prolly one of the most annoying things in game. But most guards are predictable and with the help of tears, nps D

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Originally Posted by xXxAurorAxXx

Blue drain is prolly one of the most annoying things in game. But most guards are predictable and with the help of tears, nps D

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:D, thing is tho if you use tear for your mana you have it on CD, if you need it for HP soon after that.....you die lol so blue drain is still successfull. It also (if mana is fully depleted with that skill) offs all your opponents auras and elemental skill. Which is a big advantage for your party vs. theirs since it usually takes some time to switch those on again.